Posted on 12/10/2008 11:25:07 AM PST by calenel
I received the following letter as a response to an email I sent to my Congress members regarding Obama’s eligibility for the office of President:
December 1, 2008The discrepancy in the dates of the two pages is part of the letter I received. He doesn’t have the facts straight regarding McCain, but that isn’t really relevant.
[calenel]
[calenel’s real world address]
Dear [calenel]:
Thank you for contacting me regarding internet rumors. I appreciate hearing from you. Please be aware that I am prohibited from using my official Senate office to discuss political campaigns, either with respect to my own campaign or that of other candidates, including candidates for President of the United States. In the future, I would recommend that you address questions concerning a political candidate’s statements or candidacy to his/her campaign office or to the political party offices involved in their candidacy.
While the Internet serves an important role in our society and our economy, it unfortunately also provides an excellent forum for accidently or deliberately dispensing misinformation. While accurate information is also made available to those willing to look for the truth, it is often true that factual information does not spread through cyberspace nearly as quickly as the scurrilous, damaging misinformation that fuels public anger or outrage.
Based upon comments you made to my office, you have apparently come across the Internet rumors suggesting Senator Barack Obama was not born in the United States. The Internet rumors assert that he would consequently be ineligible to serve as President. Such rumors overlook the fact that Senator Obama is a natural born citizen of the United States regardless of the location of his birth. Senator Obama’s mother was a citizen of the United States, and children of American citizens are conferred citizenship at birth, meaning that Barack Obama was born a citizen of this country regardless of the location of his birth. The same is true of Senator John McCain, whose birth in the Panama Canal Zone has led to similar, equally false allegations of ineligibility.
To address you’re your particular allegations of forgery, it should be noted that Senator Obama has released the birth certificate issued by the State of Hawaii, showing he was born in that state. It has been widely available on the Internet for months, and anyone who wants to view it can visit any number of websites, including http://www.nesweek.com/id/154599 or
[calenel]
December 4, 2008
Page 2
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html. Numerous reputable sources have affirmed the document’s authenticity, including researchers at PolitiFact, Newsweek, the Los Angeles Times, and others.
Thanks again for contacting me and please keep in touch!
Sincerely,
Tim Johnson
TPJ/kcr
My response to the Senator:
December 9, 2008
Senator Tim Johnson
P.O. Box 1859
Sioux Falls, SD 57101
Dear Senator Johnson:
Thank you for responding to my letter about issues relating to the eligibility of Senator Barack Obama for the Office of President. Unfortunately, you did not address my concerns.
You stated in your letter that regardless of where children of United States citizens are born they are natural born citizens. While that is almost universally true, there is one exception of note. According to The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, 66 Stat, 163, 235, 8 U.S. Code Section 1401 (b) (Section 301 of the Act), the Law in effect at the time of Mr. Obama’s birth:
Section 301 (a) The following shall be citizens of the United States at birth:
(1) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,
(7) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States, who prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years.
Section 301(a)(7), above, applies to Mr. Obama as his father, Barack Obama, Sr., was an alien from Kenya. Mr. Obama was born on August 4, 1961. Mr. Obama’s mother was born on November 29, 1942. Mr. Obama’s mother was 18 years, eight months and six days old when Mr. Obama was born. Consequently, Mr. Obama’s mother could not have been present in the United States for more than four years, eight months and six days after the age of 14, as required by law in order to pass United States citizenship to Mr. Obama at birth.
If Mr. Obama was, in fact, born in the United States, then he is a natural born citizen and is therefore eligible to be the President. However, if he was born elsewhere, then he clearly is not eligible for the Office.
You stated that Mr. Obama has released the birth certificate issued by the State of Hawaii. That is factually incorrect. What Mr. Obama has provided is an electronic image of a different document, the short form or summary of the birth certificate. The document provided is insufficient to meet the standard required, and is not even sufficient to meet some legal requirements in the State that issued it. That would be like offering your driver’s license in place of your passport when passing through customs. Additionally, there is legitimate doubt as to the authenticity of the image of the Certification of Live Birth that was made available, claims to the contrary not withstanding. It has been demonstrated to have been electronically manipulated. In other words, even if the original document exists, the image has been altered rendering it legally invalid. It says as much on the document itself. In addition it fails to meet the necessary standard as such documents were issued to persons who were not born in the State of Hawaii.
Further, there are conflicting statements from persons who can credibly claim to have first hand information as to the location of Mr. Obama’s birth, some of which place it in Kenya, the home of Mr. Obama’s father’s family.
As we are discussing the single most important job in the world, the President of the United States, we cannot allow for any doubt what so ever as to the eligibility of the person holding that job. Unfortunately, Mr. Obama is refusing to allow access to the original long form document that bears the signature of the attending physician and any other official attributes allowing the document to stand uncontested.
Furthermore, a great deal of effort has been expended to thwart access to that document. It is a simple matter to bring the verifiable and authentic original version of this document forward and lay to rest these rumors. Why not just get this issue resolved to the satisfaction of all? What harm could conceivably come from the contents of that document that will be worse than the damage to the credibility of Mr. Obama that is occurring now?
You also stated that Senator McCain has the same issues attending his eligibility, but that is incorrect. Senator McCain was born to two United States citizens, under a different set of circumstances. Furthermore, Senator McCain provided a document that met the necessary standard immediately upon request.
You also cited FactCheck as a valid source for information regarding Mr. Obama, but are you aware that FactCheck has ties to the Chicago Annenberg Challenge of which Mr. Obama was formerly the Chair? This is a clear conflict of interest. All of the other cited authenticating bodies have relied on information from FactCheck, and their statements are consequently compromised.
We can not have just any person that wants to be the President of the United States eligible to the Office. There are Constitutional requirements to be met that were put in place by the founding fathers. They are there for a reason. If we ignore them, then the Constitution becomes meaningless and that will be the end of us.
I bring this to your attention specifically because you still have a Constitutional role in the election process. The Electoral Votes are to be counted by the President of the Senate, Vice President Cheney, in the Presence of the House and the Senate. It is incumbent on you, as a member of the Senate, to safeguard against any improper procedure. You must be prepared to uphold all the legal and Constitutional responsibilities that your Office requires. It is not Newsweek’s or the Los Angeles Times’ responsibility to confirm the authenticity of any proof of Mr. Obama’s eligibility.
It is yours.
Sincerely,
[calenel]
Anyone on here from Ron Paul’s district? If there is anyone in Congress that will be willing to demand authentic and verifiable proof, it is him.
The MSM obviously needs some help making it thru the learning curve: make this thing grow legs and find someone with a Hawaii COLB not actually born in HI, and get a sworn affidavit from them stating such.
I guess she could apply to the courts to have them compel 0bama to provide proof of his natural born status but that’s what all the other law suits are trying to do.
She is bound to uphold the Constitution but she is also bound to uphold the laws of the State of Hawaii. She can’t break one law to uphold another.
Where?
bump
Who. His paternal grandmother, half brother and half sister all claim(ed) he was born in Kenya. His grandmother says she was there. So far, we have exactly zero people claiming to have been at Obama's birth in HI (except Obama himself). We have three claims of Obama family members. Then there's Kenyan Ambassador, Peter Ogego, who says so, although that isn't firsthand. Gov. Richardson says Obama is an immigrant. 'Course, he's just another idiot liberal with his tongue out of gear. The grandmother can credibly make the claim she was there, and the sibs can claim first hand information. Is it true? I don't know. The BC could tell us.
And where do they say this? Source please.
Then there's Kenyan Ambassador, Peter Ogego, who says so, although that isn't firsthand.
I've heard the recording. At no time does he say that Obama was born there, and he has since denied he ever intended to say or even imply Obama was born in Kenya.
The grandmother can credibly make the claim she was there, and the sibs can claim first hand information. Is it true? I don't know. The BC could tell us.
Or evidence indicating he was, in fact, born in Kenya could do the same thing. Now, do you have anything that shows that or are you operating from internet rumor? Some source quoting the grandmother or the siblings would help. Though I assume you are aware that Obama's half sister would have been about one year old when he was born, and his half brother would have been about three so it's hard to believe that either had any memories of the 'blessed event'.
There are at least two distinct recordings in which someone, alleged to be Obama's GrandMama, claims a) that she was present at his birth, or b) that he was born in Kenya. As Tim Johnson would say, they "are widely available on the Internet." No doubt they are widely available on FR, too. Anyway, here is the link to a recording of Obama's grandmother saying she was there, and here is one from someone on the other side of the phone interview. Here is one of her saying he is a native of her village.
I do not speak Swahili, so I must rely on the claims of the translators. I simply offer these as evidence that there are claims contradictory to those of... well, nobody, since there are no claims by anyone that they were present at his birth in Hawaii.
And there in lies a problem, neither does Obama's grandmother. So it begs the question that if this woman is speaking Swahili then who the hell is she?
That is clearly not true. He would not even be a citizen, unless later naturalized, if he was born outside the US. Since the law at the time required that the US Citizen parent of a child born overseas of one US Citizen parent and a foreign national have resided in the US for 5 years after their 14th birthday. Stanley Ann Dunham Obama was not old enough to have done so when BHO was born.
So much for this Senator's credibility.
Do you have a source for that?
No matter, it is not really relevant.
Do you have a reason why we should NOT have doubts about Obama's place of birth?
Incidentally, there is an assertion in one of the videos that Ms. Obama is in fact fluent in Swahili. There is a reference in another one of the videos that she speaks something called Lau which I took to be a language (also the tribal name, so if it is a language then I would expect it to be her native tongue).
If that is your only issue with my letter then I expect I'm doing well.
I suspect that there is a real problem with Obama's BC, or it would be out there already. I suspect that the SR 511 resolution and the relatively light scrutiny that McCain's birth circumstances received led Obama to believe he could get by with the COLB. After all, it's 'pretty close' and there are so many other documents to pursue, right? I suspect that the Rats think we're as stupid as their own voters are (the last election confirmed that), and they know they have the MSM to scoff at anything we might say. And it's such an obscure law, after all (as evidenced by Johnson's letter above), EVERYBODY (except the 'born a citizen but not a natural born citizen' crowd) knows that if you are the child of an American citizen you are automatically a natural born citizen. I knew that, before I knew about the 1952 statute, or any of the other exceptions. I don't think it's some kind of vast conspiracy. I think that the only person that really knows the truth is Mr. Obama. I think that there might be a few people that don't want to know, and a whole bunch that don't care, a sort of willful ignorance that protects them from unpleasant truths. And I don't believe that I know, either. But I want to.
I don’t think we disagree.
I just don’t know that she can claim standing other than she has sworn an oath to uphold the Constitution, which would seem to to be enough to you and me, but nay not hold up in court. In which case, she just becomes the 18th lawsuit..
Any biography of the woman.
No matter, it is not really relevant.
You're kidding, right?
Do you have a reason why we should NOT have doubts about Obama's place of birth?
Well on the one hand we have Obama's bullshit COLB. On the other hand we have your bullshit like grandma's interviews. So...why should I believe one over the other?
Incidentally, there is an assertion in one of the videos that Ms. Obama is in fact fluent in Swahili. There is a reference in another one of the videos that she speaks something called Lau which I took to be a language (also the tribal name, so if it is a language then I would expect it to be her native tongue).
It's Luo, not Lau. And it's a tribe and a language. Obama's grandmother's tribe and her native tongue. Not Swahili.
If that is your only issue with my letter then I expect I'm doing well.
Sure, you're doing great. Your only evidence that Obama was born in Kenya is highly suspect to say the least.
And it's such an obscure law, after all (as evidenced by Johnson's letter above), EVERYBODY (except the 'born a citizen but not a natural born citizen' crowd) knows that if you are the child of an American citizen you are automatically a natural born citizen.
You are if you were born in Hawaii.
"Any biography of the woman."
You should live up to the same standards you expect of others and provide a source.
"Well on the one hand we have Obama's bullshit COLB. On the other hand we have your bullshit like grandma's interviews. So...why should I believe one over the other?"
I am not claiming that the assertions of a translator about a statement in a language I don't speak from someone alleged to be a relative of Obama is going to close the deal. I fully acknowledge the flaws in that. But there are exactly zero witnesses claiming to have been present for Obama's birth in HI. And my point, exactly, is that we should not believe one over the other and that it is for Obama to prove himself eligible. But you know that since you read my letter well enough to pick a fight over a minor point.
"You're kidding, right?"
Nope. Whether it is swahili, luo, mandarin or vulcan doesn't matter. For that matter, do you speak swahili or luo? How do you know which language was even being spoken?
"It's Luo, not Lau. And it's a tribe and a language. Obama's grandmother's tribe and her native tongue. Not Swahili."
And your point, again?
"Your only evidence that Obama was born in Kenya is highly suspect to say the least."
And the only evidence that he was not is...what? Here is the Kenyan Ambassador to the United States admitting that Obama's Kenyan birthplace is well known. But that isn't exactly the same as saying he was born there, I suppose. So, you are technically correct in your assertion that he never said it.
"You are if you were born in Hawaii."
But we don't know that, now do we?
Should I go back through my posts and find out what I said to offend you so badly, or do you think we can keep this civil?
Be aware that there are more than one of the recordings of Obamas’ grandmother on the internet. Berg has said, at the We the People press conference that one of them has been doctored to make it look as if the whole thing was a simple misunderstanding.
Either grandma “was in the delivery room in Kenya when he was born Aug. 4, 1961.” or not. Berg said that he has affidavits to that effect, among other things. Being in the delivery room is pretty definitive for a witness, but of course you can choose whom to trust and what to believe.
Touched a nerve, did I? I'm merely pointing out that in your letter the evidence you offer supporting your claim Obama was born in Kenya is pretty bogus. So to criticize Obama on the one hand for something you're doing on the other is kind of hypocritical.
You should live up to the same standards you expect of others and provide a source.
Google is your friend.
Nope. Whether it is swahili, luo, mandarin or vulcan doesn't matter. For that matter, do you speak swahili or luo? How do you know which language was even being spoken.
You said it was Swahili. Don't you remember? In Berg's affidavit it was also claimed the interview was in Swahili.
But we don't know that, now do we?
You don't have any solid evidence he wasn't.
Only the same nerve that anyone cherry-picking an issue to attempt to stifle debate and being obnoxious about it touches.
"I'm merely pointing out that in your letter the evidence you offer supporting your claim Obama was born in Kenya is pretty bogus."
I have already acknowledged it is weak, but not necessarily bogus. It isn't my evidence, it is someone else's. But how about this? I admit that I do not speak what ever language was being spoken on the audio. This same woman is in an Obama puff piece, the video of the 'born in this village' piece and your wiki reference. The subtitle in the 'born' piece reads like the audio sounds. What ever language that is, it should be pretty easy to debunk if it is a mistranslation. Where is that debunking? There are several luo-english dictionaries available. I don't have one handy, but I'm sure any enterprising debunker could get a hold of one to find out what 'nate dhalani' actually means.
"Google is your friend."
Google isn't my friend. They sold out to the Chinese and as a matter of principle I avoid using Google. I use other search engines, which ARE my friends. Google is apparently your friend, so how is it that I am expected to provide sources and you are not?
"Wikipedia, USA Today"
Not everything on Wikipedia or USA Today is true. Neither of them is entirely objective. Wikipedia is subjective by design, and USA Today is a typical 'drive by' medium. Did you notice that Wikipedia says she is a Muslim ("Sarah Obama herself is 'a strong believer of the Islamic faith,' in her words") and USA Today says she is a Christian ("She, too, is a Christian"). Yet both use the exact same quote from her when they make those assertions: "In the world of today, children have different religions from their parents." I wonder what's going on there.
"You said it was Swahili. Don't you remember? In Berg's affidavit it was also claimed the interview was in Swahili."
My assertion that it was Swahili was based on the content of the video. Take your straw man back to the corn field where he belongs. You seem to have an issue with Berg. Why are you bringing him into this? In any case, I have been on the record as saying that Berg's case would fail. That doesn't mean that I said all his assertions were false.
"You don't have any solid evidence he wasn't."
I have anecdotal evidence that he wasn't and no comparable evidence that he was. It isn't up to me to prove he wasn't, it is up to him to prove he was. I am not the presumptive President, he is. A very simple task that would shut this whole thing down. When the same type of questions were directed at McCain he produced the necessary documentation. I expect no more, and no less, from Obama than was expected from the candidate I (reluctantly) supported.
these tawdry terds naturally stick together, don’t they?
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