Posted on 12/02/2008 9:12:13 PM PST by PotatoHeadMick
Indian police who bore the brunt of last week’s attacks on Mumbai had defective bulletproof vests, First World War-era firearms and insufficient weapons training, police sources have told The Times.
Many wore plastic helmets and body protectors designed for sticks and stones, rather than bullets, as they fought highly trained militants armed with AK47 rifles, pistols, grenades and explosives.
The contrast between them was vividly illustrated yesterday by CCTV footage of two militants attacking Chhatrapati Shivaji terminus, Mumbai’s main railway station, last Wednesday.
It shows the gunmen spraying automatic fire while two constables cower behind pillars, one armed with a .303 rifle similar to the Lee-Enfield weapons used by British troops in the First World War.
(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...
ROFL, ok Cliff Clavin, I submit!
Actually the Brits sold the equipment to make the SMLE to the Indian Ishapore Arsenal, who then updated the design to chamber the then Brit standard 7.62mm cartridge.
Those aren't just vintage Enfields rechambered. They were made from the ground up from modern steel after a rather extensive design and testing process.
Believe it or not the Ishapore Enfield is available for sale here in the US for less than $200.00 or so a copy. I've got a couple of them. It's a damned effective rifle, and it's wicked accurate.
The iron sights on mine are graduate out to 800 meters, and I've had no trouble hitting center mass sized targets at 400 yards.
The problem in Mumbai wasn't the rifles the Indians were carrying. It was the lack of an effective doctrine and training.
I'll further go out on a limb and bet that not one of those Indian cops you saw with those rifles had more than 10 rounds of ammunition. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they had no ammunition at all.
L
Probably local made...
After all....the Indians are still cranking out 1950 style Enfield motor cycles.
Call this for what it was - an all-out paramilitary assault on an unarmed population. Body armor is a peripheral issue, really - most vests worn by LEOs in the States wouldn't stop an AK round either. Training is the issue, not being automatically outgunned because you're unarmed is next.
God bless the poor SOB with the Enfield. At least he had an idea of what he was trying to accomplish.
Because they already had the machinery to make it. They weren't exactly flush with cash in those days. They re chambered for .308/7.62 for compatibility with the planned FN-FAL type battle rifle.
“Is it? I didn’t know that I simply assumed they were old .303’s left over from when the Brits left, I wonder why they upgraded the ammunition but retained the old style rifle?”
Didn’t that switch over in caliber take place in the mid 1960s?
Are these bolt action rifles single shot or do that have a small magazine/clip? I’ve seen bolt actions worked pretty fast by some folks.
“Believe it or not the Ishapore Enfield is available for sale here in the US for less than $200.00 or so a copy. I’ve got a couple of them. It’s a damned effective rifle, and it’s wicked accurate.”
I own one as well and I own the bayonet too, I built my first bayonet dummy when I was about 10 or 11 and I owned an old Mauser, it was very long and heavy for me at the time but I love the bayonet.
If they were armed with the old SMLE bolt gun in '96, they probably weren't regular Indian Army. Paramilitary, police, maybe reserve military. The regular Army had long since converted to the FN/FAL by then. Just as now they have replaced the FN/FALs and shifted those to paramilitary and police.
I think those Indian built bolt actions have been on the US surplus market at least since '97, but I haven't seen any lately.
The Spanish also did the conversion to 7.62x51 thing with Mauser action rifles, they also added a flash hider, when they converted to the near contemporary (of the AK and FN/FAL) CETME. Wish I'd bought one of those when I had the chance, although I understand the recoil is.. stiff.. in such a light rifle.
Thanks.
L
Its magazine capacity is 10 rounds.
I’ve seen bolt actions worked pretty fast by some folks.
L
“Where did you find the correct bayonet? I’ve been looking for a couple.”
For the Enfield bayonet I bought it at a gun show in Del Mar, Ca. about 2001. I researched (shopped) for it for a while before I found it but I don’t remember much about the search, I think that it was in the catalogs and such but I was shopping for price, and decided on the gun show price.
The bayonet is the same old Enfield 303 one I believe. (I’m not a collector)
Those aren't just vintage Enfields rechambered. They were made from the ground up from modern steel after a rather extensive design and testing process.
Those are fine rifles. Slick as snot and good barrels too. Now I need one. They just aren't automatic, though. Even though the AK is 60 years old, that pattern is still the world standard for raising hell, cost effectively. Besides, in countries like India regular street cops are civilians, and not necesssarily trusted with modern weapons and training. Too many of them and their loyalty can't be guaranteed. Remember Indira Gandhi. I also doubt they had ammo. Most of them just had bamboo batons. The arms, of whatever type, are mainly symbolic, like a badge. The British culture.
If you can’t take down someone with a .303, something is wrong with you. A Lee Enfield would shoot through that body armor at close range and probably at a distance. Not only that, it was one of the fastest bolt actions around. Need to be trained in its use though, but the weapon wasn’t the problem. You actually have to use it before you can kill someone with it, contrary to liberal thinking a rifle won’t shoot someone without a human aiming and squeezing the trigger.
At over 100 yards, the 47 is a piece of crap compared to the 7.62 NATO Enfield, (I have several).
The training is the issue. Our local police would have done little better on a moment's notice.
The officials were warned this raid was coming and should be held accountable for sending these rag tag boys to their destruction.
http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=8894838
Seller’s Description:
303,RFI Mfg(India)Dated 1948,nothing matches.
The Nose cap is the correct square ears style.
Import marked,Wood has a wrist crack an a bunch
of small arsenal patch on the stocks.
Retains 50%+ metal finish,thinning in places no
major pits or rust.
Bore is nice,bright and strong VG.
I don’t know if you are old enough to remember the army surplus stores of the 1950s, but man the tripod machine guns that you could buy for $35.00 and $75.00 I was a kid and I guess the cheap ones were lessor models but I think that I remember one that looked like a common
french machine gun that I had read a lot about, but I couldn’t get the $50.00 or so to buy it.
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