Liberals, NDP and Bloc sign coalition pact (Canada)

The Toronto Star ^ | Dec 01, 2008 05:38 PM | Les Whittington Bruce Campion-Smith Tonda MacCharles

[BillyBoy]

I obviously prefer the republican form of government we have in USA (and technically in Mexico, except their elections are ultra corrupt and tend to get power thur bribes and assassination). The reason why, of course, is we have separation of powers that allows the executive, judicial, and legislative branches to all be from different parties and provides more checks and balance. I especially dislike the british "honours" system where they get to dole out rewards and give elite members of society seats in the House of Lords for life, where they get a big government salary and perks and don't even have any legislative check over the House of Commons.

There are two aspects of the British system I prefer over our own government though: the "prime minister question time" where members of Congress from each party are allowed to speak up and call the "ruling government" to task on its agenda (vs. the U.S. system of "state of the union address" which has evolved into one big, pre-scripted meaningless pep rally, follwed by a pre-scripted "opposition response" given to no one except the cameraman). John McCain agreed with me on the latter, and wanted to implement something like that in the USA. But of course Obama would never allow the GOP minority in Congress the power to debate him and debunk his socialist agenda in front him on live TV cameras. The second, of course, is the ability to get rid of cabinet members by votes of "no confidence", because here in the USA the only way to get rid of them is either the President fires the bastards or Congress manages to impeachment and remove them for high crimes (which never happens) As a result we get stuck with people like Janet Reno for eight years. In England she could have been "dismissed" by a simple majority "no confidence" vote after the Waco fisaco.

Re - Mexico's political parties. I agree the "conservative" government of Mexico has been a huge pain in the ass, especially Vicente Fox, which is perhaps the biggest disappointment in modern political history since he upset the ruling party after 80 years and had the potential to be a Mexican Ronald Reagan, but instead did nothing but blame the U.S. for six years. Harper's not as conservative as I'd like, but I think he's more of a Canadian version of Bob Ehrlich, whereas Fox is the Mexican version of George Ryan -- an arrogant elitist socialist elected by a "conservative party", yet delights in undermining George Bush, stabbing his own party in the back, and bilking the system to enrich himself. Ironically, the communist PRD would be the best scenario for U.S. conservatives (though not Mexican conservatives), because commies keep their people from escaping and our government would be forced to stop kissing Mexican but and deal with Mexico as an hostile enemy state. I personally would have preferred a PRI win though, because it would have been the most direct repudiation of Vicente Fox's failed policies... I also think many PRI members are more ideologically conservative than Vicente is.

If PRI and PNR agreed to caucus together and back the same person for Speaker/Senate President/etc., they could end "conservative" rule in Mexico very easily though. By simply caucusing together right now, their combined totals would give them 280 seats in the Mexican House (vs. PAN's 206) and 75 seats in the Mexican Senate (vs. PAN's 52)

[northernlightsII]

This GG is Haitian born married to a frenchman and very closely tied to the separatists of Quebec including members of the FlQ a terrorist group who kidnapped and murdered the minister of labour for Quebec in october 1970.Ayers type of people if you please.

[BillyBoy]

Interesting. The current "Governor-General" is Michaëlle Jean, a french canadian black female of Haitian descent. She was appointed under Paul Martin. Gotta give the Liberals bonus points in creativity as they attempted to pander to all groups:

Now I think technically she's appointed by the Queen, but the Queen "appoints" whoever the Prime Minster "recommends" to her. One of the problems in a parlimentary system is a loop hole where the PM has the power to "dismiss" a Governor-General at will during a "crisis", but the Governor-General also has the same power to dismiss a Prime Minster. I think one of these countries (Australia?) had a "consitutional crisis" back in the 70s or so because both of them tried to dismiss each other AT THE SAME TIME (which seems rather silly by U.S. standards, but it did cause the government into a halting deadlock)

[northernlightsII]

You are totally disingenuous there is no mandate at all from anywhere in this country to make an alliance with a separatist party which is why the Libs and NDP are trumpeting very loudly that there will be no Bloc members in their coalition cabinet.
You cannot sell the Bloc outside Quebec and the Bloc will die the minute it appears to try and become a national party because that it would destroy its base. Don’t try to claim that the west is buying into this. I don’t care where you were born or whatever,the memory of the NEP is still vivid even here in BC which in case you missed turn back conservative this last election. Successful provinces that are not beggars don’t vote liberal ndp or block.You shpuld also look at what happened in Saskatchewan in their provincial election...kick out the NDP....guess why they are prosperous now. Your analysis of the canadian political landscape is completely flawed.

[northernlightsII]

I venture you are a newfie....

[Canadian Volunteer]

“”Say what you will; the facts are what they are.”

And what are the “facts” ? I pointed out the inherent hypocrisy in believing in two opposing ideological forces. You seem to want to rewrite the laws of physics.”

fieldmarshaldj, if you don’t know anything about the Progressive Conservative Party, don’t haul-off denying its previous existence like it’s a Jaberwocky. It existed. For nearly seven decades. Deal with reality, not your preferences.

” “It was a die-hard Conservative idealogue that brought the Progressive Conservative Party to its knees”

And, um, pray tell who was that ?”

Brian Mulroney aka Lyin’ Bryan aka The Chin©

“So you’re blaming the greatest Canadian Conservative in quite literally decades for failure when the current situation is nothing more but a desperate and sad attempt by the rejected and dejected rabid moonbattery of politics attempting an unholy and what may likely prove seriously unpopular coup d’etat of a duly elected plurality gov’t ? You have a most bizarre outlook, sir.”

Yeah, the control freak. The man so focussed on dissing his political rivals that the economy can burn and the peasants eat cake. Yeah, that’s the guy. The one that 60+ percent of the electorate DIDN’T vote for.

“Yes, usually the giving away of right and the taking away of right. I’ve witnessed that schtick for a long time now.”

Ah! I see! I’m glad your life on a desert island is going so glowingly. As I said, that’s exceptional in the experience of most, conservative or liberal.

“Because good people refuse to stand up against wrong. They merely allow enlightened individuals such as yourself “negotiate” the right away. ;-)”

You have an interestingly narrow outlook. I was referring to the day-to-day reality the vast majority face where absolutes as you see them aren’t possible. Like when it’s a toss-up between paying the mortgage or eating after you’ve been laid off. But then again, that would be the fault of the person deciding in your book because he shouldn’t have been stupid enough to be in the position of being laid off, right?

My apologies if I’ve mischaracterised your position. In this day and age, finding someone who seems quite so thoughtless and heartless is unusual and my reaction was visceral.

[cmj328]

it worked just fine for about 7 decades

GST, transfer payments, hospital waiting lists...yep, everything's just fine.

Millions of Canadians aborted...yep, everything's just fine.

Mark Steyn persecuted for trying to save society...yep, everything's just fine.

Bishops, pastors and KoC chapters persecuted for their faith...yep, everything's just fine.

[Cheburashka]

Why can’t Harper call a snap election?

---

They just had an election in October. Precedent says the Prime Minister would be refused if he suggested a new election to avoid losing the ministry. He would then be required to resign.

The proper course is for the opposition to call for a no confidence votee.

[Impy]

The US election? 80% turnout? LMAO. Not since the 19th century.

The number I heard is 64%.

[Impy]

“Our Conservatives are by-and-large to the left of the Democrats”

Not accurate.

[Impy]

If each of our states had races like that, CA wouldn’t have had a GOP Governor since the late ‘60s because they couldn’t win a majority in the legislature (for whom the “Governor” or “Premier” would be the party leader — you’d have had Willie Brown leading the state for a dozen years, a terrifying thought).

That isn't really true because races largely cease to be local in a parliamentary system, the elections would have turned out differently. The USA certainly would have had some GOP PMs between the 50's and 90's. In Cali I presume GOP statewide winners carried the majority of districts including some held by rats. In a parliamentary system many of those seats would have elected Rs instead as people vote for the leader or party with the strength of the local candidates being just one factor.

I prefer a parliament is some ways. Easier to pass things (bad things to of course) and no divided government. Reagan would have been PM and no rat congress to hold him back. Given the 40 year vice grip they had it would have been better for us.

I think Bama carried a majority of house districts but rats would not have been elected in all those conservative seats.

Of course there are downsides as well.

[Nathan Zachary]

"Why can’t Harper call a snap election?"

That is a possibility. But there is a problem. The Speaker of the house was also a Quebec separatist in her wild and crazy days, and was a liberal appointed speaker of the house.

Lawfully, she has to listen to Harpers advise, to either Perouge (restart) parliament ( cooling off period) or call an election.

Lawfully, she has no digression in the matter, it's one or the other, but who knows. This is a coupe like all Marxist coups, planned before Harper even won the election a month ago.

[Nathan Zachary]

"It has been done before and everyone knows how to play the game."

It has not been done before like this. That was in ww1 and the parties were all representive of Canadians across the country, not a separtist party which shouldn't even be seated in Canadian parelement.

This stupid deal gives the separtists, who have the majority of seats in the coalition, the balance of power.

It's insane.

Meanwhile, western Canadians voted almost entirely conservative except for a few seats, and now they will have NO representation.

It's the same old, same old of Ottawa's Liberals thinking that their kingdom shall never be ruled from the west.

Western Canadians should rally and either demand this disgusting behavior of greedy leftists be stopped, or demand separation from eastern Canada. The later is perhaps the best thing they could do.

[Nathan Zachary]

Exactly. And nobody should think he has nothing to do with what is going on. He needs Dion to complete the sale of Canada to the world ruling elite, of which he his the architect of, and Canada his part of the kingdom to rule.

[Perdogg]

I am sure that the East Vancouver riding went NDP. ;)

I am not an expert on Canadian politics, but the possibility of this happening has always been there.

[jaguar21]

Seems like the Bloq could have held out for something. Liberals get cabinet seats, NDP gets cabinet seats, Bloq gets nothing.

[Edgerunner]

Canada really and truly needs to reform the election system, it’s completely out of control.

Yeah...So is ours (USA)

[Lent]

The NDP with several cabinet positions and Dion as PM...bwwwhahaha! What a hapless bunch.

[fanfan]

Seems like the Bloq could have held out for something. Liberals get cabinet seats, NDP gets cabinet seats, Bloq gets nothing.

The Bloq gets veto power over everything. Quebec gets what ever it wants.

[free_life]

I have enjoyed your posts and insight in this thread fieldmarshaldj. Thank you for level headedness. In my family we would say, “you are a good stick” (an old English expression).