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Some common sense commentary about wind power.
1 posted on 11/29/2008 8:47:21 AM PST by saganite
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To: saganite

If wind power were useful, the world would run on wind — And not hot air.


2 posted on 11/29/2008 8:48:29 AM PST by Tarpon (America's first principles, freedom, liberty, market economy and self-reliance will never fail.)
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To: Admin Moderator

Note. The full title is: Wind Power Exposed: The Renewable Energy Source is Expensive, Unreliable and Won’t Save Natural Gas.

I edited it to fit the parameters of the posting requirements and still keep the meaning of the article’s title intact.


3 posted on 11/29/2008 8:49:30 AM PST by saganite (I for one welcome our new Socialist masters /s/)
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To: saganite

Also..
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2138870/posts


4 posted on 11/29/2008 8:50:09 AM PST by xcamel (Conservatives start smart, and get rich, liberals start rich, and get stupid.)
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To: saganite

What I don’t quite understand is how ethanol as fuel is jumped on and derided (properly) here ar FR, yet these wind power threads are met with a yawn.

At one time each consumer would elect to use wind power generated electricity, but no more, now we are all FORCED to buy this junk.

My own electric bill has gone up at least 10% over this junk, and I’ll wager that’s generally true all accross the country. That’s far more costly than ethanol ever has been.


6 posted on 11/29/2008 8:53:31 AM PST by Balding_Eagle (If America falls, darkness will cover the face of the earth for a thousand years.)
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To: steelyourfaith

ping


7 posted on 11/29/2008 8:55:06 AM PST by saganite (I for one welcome our new Socialist masters /s/)
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To: saganite

Windmill produced sources of power have been around for Centuries. Were it an efficient, effective alternative to Fossil Fuels the Free Market would have developed it further as Fossil Fuels have always been more costly. The Free Market has not developed it for good reason. Inefficient, and insufficient.


9 posted on 11/29/2008 8:59:34 AM PST by rockinqsranch (Dems, Libs, Socialists, Call 'em what you will, they ALL have Fairies livin' in their Trees.)
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To: saganite

Windmill produced sources of power have been around for Centuries. Were it an efficient, effective alternative to Fossil Fuels the Free Market would have developed it further as Fossil Fuels have always been more costly. The Free Market has not developed it for good reason. Inefficient, and insufficient.


10 posted on 11/29/2008 8:59:34 AM PST by rockinqsranch (Dems, Libs, Socialists, Call 'em what you will, they ALL have Fairies livin' in their Trees.)
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To: saganite

Another very recent study cited the impact of off shore wind turbines to the marine life.
The distortion to air flow over the ocean surface, disturbs the patterns of thermal currents and very small marine life, which in turn impact all of the larger, dependent marine life.


11 posted on 11/29/2008 9:07:26 AM PST by G Larry (BarackÂ’s character has been molded by extremists)
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To: saganite
Wind Power Exposed: Energy Source is Expensive, Unreliable and Won’t Save Natural Gas

Among other things, wind power lacks one characteristic for being economical, that is economics of scale for each unit of generation.

Conventional steam and gas generating units come in large sizes, say 100 MW and larger. Build it stout and reliable and keep it on-line. It pays for itself by using affordable fuel and generating with large MW-Hour maintenance intervals.

Wind power doesn't come with a single windmill in 100 MW and larger sizes. Despite having free fuel, the MW-Hour maintenance interval is comparatively small, and the generating equipment is exposed to high winds, rain, hail, and lightning.

13 posted on 11/29/2008 9:16:39 AM PST by SteamShovel (Global Warming, the New Patriotism)
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To: saganite

“Wind Power Exposed: Energy Source is Expensive, Unreliable and Won’t Save Natural Gas”

But it makes the idiots on the left feel good, which is what it’s all about.


14 posted on 11/29/2008 9:17:20 AM PST by Spok (Poverty destroys monarchies; prosperity destroys republics.)
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To: saganite
I think the best guideline to adopt would be, "Whatever the left is pushing, we avoid it at all costs, because it can't be good.".

I heard a guy on the radio yesterday saying that he priced out "wind power" for just his house, and the basic cost of $50,000.

Now, I don't know how many "windy days" he has a year, but I'm just gonna take a wild stab and guess that it's going to take a loooonnnnnggggg time to recoup his $50 grand.

Like they said, we don't have an alternative energy source yet that will do the job. Nothing yet to replace oil.

The one big "tell" I've notice from the left is, THEY are not doing anything to save oil. The politicians - even algore - all fly around in private jets and ride in motorcades of limos and SUV's. They live in LARGE houses that use more water and natural resources that any 5 of the typical home.

What is that?

They want to spred misery equally to everyone except themselves...anyone who doesn't see that (uh...media, are you listening?) should be swinging from the trees in Africa looking for a banana to eat...'cause Darwin ain't finished with you yet.)

It's really simple. Oil is power. You control the oil, you control the world. We see it everyday, as with the help of the enviro-nuts, we've relinquished that power to the mideast, and we live according to their 15th century whims.

Meanwhile, we sit on enough oil, gas, and coal in the United States to get us by for hundreds of years - until a technology allows us to actually come up with an alternative to those fuels.

We need to stop looking at what we want to happen in this country, and take a close look at what IS happening. Of course we're not using our resources, they are in a "lockbox savings account" for the new world order, whoever that will wind up being in the end. They are safe, in the ground, under forbidden soil, waiting for the victors...and to the victors go the spoils.

So as far as wind power goes, our future is just blowing in the wind if we're waiting on THAT solution - ya hear that T. Boone? T. Boone reminds the of the guy that came up with the new coolant and then convinced the world that Freon was killing the planet so we'd better convert to his stuff. Or the cereal companies who started the egg/cholesterol scare so we'd eat more cereal.

Follow the money.
15 posted on 11/29/2008 9:19:08 AM PST by FrankR (Where's Waldo ([W]here [A]re [L]egal [D]ocuments [O]bama? (i.e. birth certificate))
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To: saganite

“highly volatile reliability”

Fortunately, I have my enviro-weasel to English dictionary handy. This means unreliable.


16 posted on 11/29/2008 9:22:07 AM PST by farfromhome (Let us judge Obama on the content of his character rather than on the color of his skin.)
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To: saganite

Thanks for posting this. Some excellent material in this.


17 posted on 11/29/2008 9:26:51 AM PST by sionnsar (Iran Azadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY)|http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com/|RCongressIn2Years)
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To: saganite

These wind farms are hideous to look at. There is a huge one covering the hills of Altamont Pass in CA. The same liberals who rail against hillside development have nothing to say about these useless eyesores.


18 posted on 11/29/2008 9:33:47 AM PST by glock_fan
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To: saganite

The environ-weenies did not put a reality check on their dreams of wind power.


21 posted on 11/29/2008 9:39:47 AM PST by jonrick46
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To: saganite

bump


23 posted on 11/29/2008 9:50:47 AM PST by gibsosa
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To: saganite

THEY ARE CRAZY !

those wind farms make great cell towers


24 posted on 11/29/2008 9:50:57 AM PST by Flavius (war gives peace its security)
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To: saganite

Yes, send your dollars to the arabs today.


25 posted on 11/29/2008 9:51:29 AM PST by Racer1
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To: saganite

Coming to all of us soon, courtesy of the Messiah, who siad he will shut down the coal industry, “bankrupt” coal power plants, and cause our electric rates to “skyrocket.”


30 posted on 11/29/2008 10:09:20 AM PST by libstripper
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To: saganite
The U.K. has all the natural advantages. It is the windiest country in Europe. It has one of the continent's longest coastlines for the more productive (and less obtrusive) offshore farms. It has a long-established national power grid. In short, if wind power is less than successful in the U.K., its success is not guaranteed anywhere.
The UK, including water, is 3% the area of the US lower 48; more on this later.

But wind infrastructure has come at a steep price. In fiscal year 2007-08 U.K. electricity customers were forced to pay a total of over $1 billion to the owners of wind turbines. That figure is due to rise to over $6 billion a year by 2020 given the government's unprecedented plan to build a nationwide infrastructure with some 25 gigawatts of wind capacity, in a bid to shift away from fossil fuel use.
This gives but a hint of the true price, and presumably includes ongoing mainteance and replacement costs; or not. More digging is necessary. The main point is that all this is "free" wind power, whose true price is hidden behind rhetoric, subsidies and taxes, in addition to skyrocketing user rates.

Ofgem, which regulates the U.K.'s electricity and gas markets, has already expressed its concern at the burgeoning tab being picked up by the British taxpayer which, they claim, is “grossly distorting the market” while hiding the real cost of wind power. In the past year alone, prices for electricity and natural gas in the U.K. have risen twice as fast as the European Union average according to figures released in November by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. While 15 percent energy price rises were experienced across the E.U., in the U.K. gas and electricity prices rose by a staggering 29.7 percent. Ofgem believes wind subsidy has been a prime factor and questions the logic when, for all the public investment, wind produces a mere 1.3 percent of the U.K.'s energy needs.
Interesting numbers. Extrapolatng (always a risky business) the equivalent expenditure (to date) in the US based on population would be $30 billion a year by 2020 or, based on area, $201 billion.
This would represent only the subsidies, in addition to skyrocketing user rates.

Energy production basics 101:

50% of all energy produced in the United States is lost in transmission. This is because a large percentage of it is generated hundreds or thousands of miles from where the energy users are, in population centers.
If these losses were cut in half, the savings would exceed the pollyana estimates of the alternative energy dreamers permanently.

I believe the solution is obvious, but I'll let readers come to their own conclusions.

If tiny countries cannot make it work rationally, there isn't a prayer that a large country or area can hope to deal with the energy needs at reasonable cost any time soon.

And the current thinking never pauses to take stock in reality; they just throw more money at it, and assume increasing rates have no upper limit.
The world financial crisis of 2008 should (one would think) make even the most insane greenie take pause.

33 posted on 11/29/2008 11:03:51 AM PST by Publius6961 (Change is not a plan; Hope is not a strategy.)
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