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To: HollyB

From what I understand, Islam is actually based off Christianity. They view Muhammad as the last of a long line of prophets, including Jesus. As the New Testament is a correction of the Old Testament, the Koran is a correction of the New Testament.

Thoughout history, Islam has sided with Jews, sided with Christians in conflict. At the pinnacle of power, Islamic leaders were considered enlightened inviting Christian and Jewish scholars to debate their points of view.

They viewed Christians and Jews “people of the book.” Although Christians and Jews may have strayed, they are still considered brothers in faith.

I believe the radicalism you see today, is a direct result of their leaders, using the humiliation of the post WWI era, to control their people. Religion has been used throughout history to control populations.

You see it in Saudi Arabia where the shieks keep their impoverished population simmering with hatred for the West while they enjoy a life of luxury. Yassir Arafat would have been considered one of the 10 most richest heads of state while his people suffer from 60% unemployment.

Sadly, you see a glimpse of it happening in the United States where Jeremiah Wright can preach hatred for white America while he lives in a $2M country club house in a white neighborhood.

The reality of today, is that Islam is a useful tool to mobilize the population. Religious zealotry is the only force powerful enough for a technologically backward civilization to become a threat to the West. While the West tries to “understand” the zealotry ascribing it to foreign policy blunders, and a lack of empathy and tolerance; we have a real long-term problem those same religious zealots climbing into govt power trying to obtain nuclear technology.

The long-term solution, is freedom. Free nations do not war against each other. Hopefully, Iraq is the first step towards Islam’s reformation. Christianity had its reformation, and Islam must have its reformation as well if the West is to survive another 100 years.


35 posted on 11/29/2008 8:39:11 AM PST by foobarred
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To: foobarred
"As the New Testament is a correction of the Old Testament..." This statement is in error. KJV: Matthew Chapter 5: Christ Came to Fulfill the Law (Jesus speaking) 17)"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18)For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished."
57 posted on 11/29/2008 2:54:03 PM PST by pillut48 (CJ in TX --"God help us all, and God help America!!" --my new mantra for the next 4 years)
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To: foobarred; HollyB
From what I understand, Islam is actually based off Christianity. They view Muhammad as the last of a long line of prophets, including Jesus. As the New Testament is a correction of the Old Testament, the Koran is a correction of the New Testament.

Not correct. Islam is not purely based on Christianity. It is more correctly an esoteric mix of pre-Islamic arab beliefs, Arianism and Judaism.

The way it started is thus -- in the 7th century, Arabia south of the Roman and Persian Empires was a trading spot between the Romans, Persians and the Ethiopian (Axumite) Christian Empire which controlled what is now Yemen (what was then Sabea/Sheba).

Anyway, so the Arabs were a disunited lot so Mo decided the best way to unite them was to create a unifying religion. He looked around and found that the Jews in Mecca were united and retained their culture despite having lost their homeland 6 centuries earlier. He reckoned that a monotheistic religion was the best option and also that Judaism fit the key. So he took elements out of Judaism but changed one key thing -- when Abraham was supposed to have attempted to sacrificed Isaac, he made it that Abraham was about to sacrifice Ishmael (since the OT says that Ishmael is the ancestor of the Arabs) -- this way he created the idea of Arabs and united them in the idea that they were the chosen people. Next, he took other elements like Jacob's journey to heaven and portrayed them as his own.

He was also not very well read so he took distored versions of the NT and the Torah -- example, revelations says something about a lady giving birth in the desert under a palm tree. Well Mo made it so that this was how Christ was born.

However Mo suffered from fits and seizures and may have been epileptic. During one of these he said that the angel (injil) Gabriel met him and dictated to him the Sunnah (Koraan). however, at one point in the K, it says that you should respect Allat, Uzzat and Amat, the daughtersofAllah (since A, was Sin, the moon god). These were then passed off as Satanic verses which Shaitan whispered to Mo.

Many inconsistencies.

Thoughout history, Islam has sided with Jews, sided with Christians in conflict. At the pinnacle of power, Islamic leaders were considered enlightened inviting Christian and Jewish scholars to debate their points of view.

When has Islam sided with Christians in conflict??????? One instance????

The ones you say were "enlightened" were folks like Akbar who wanted to set up his own religion.

They viewed Christians and Jews “people of the book.” Although Christians and Jews may have strayed, they are still considered brothers in faith.

They also added the Zoroastrians when they conquered Iran. However, these "people of the book" still have to pay jaziya (tax) for being a non-Mus in a Mus land. They are also second-class citizens and may not build new places of worship and may only maintain their existing places of worship after consultation with the Islamicc leaders. That's like livign like a black in Apartheid era South Africa


Your post about Reformation is also incorrect. Reformation in Europe was fundamentalism -- leading to excesses like the Puritans etc. burning down churches and forcing people to follow their own rules which led to chaos. It was not liberalism. These wahabbis in Saud ARE the reformers who want to return 'purity' toIslam. Is THAT what you want?
71 posted on 12/01/2008 3:13:13 AM PST by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delenda est)
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To: foobarred

I disagree with your statement: “Islam must have its reformation as well if the West is to survive another 100 years.”

For one thing, I suspect Islam (or at least part of Islam) is planning on “taking down” the West over a longer period.

More to the point, though, the more radicalized factions want to do it faster, and, yes, they might be able to do it, but if they go too fast, the West (possibly with aid from India) will still have overwhelming technology and arms, and pushed too hard / damaged too painfully, will react by destroying most of Islam. Yes, I am talking about a nuclear WW3, and, perhaps it is the most likely scenario.

I think Bush’s long term intent has been to both try to avoid an eventual capitulation of the West AND try to avoid WW3, by sewing seeds for a hoped for something of that reformation you speak of.


109 posted on 12/02/2008 12:08:02 AM PST by Paul R. (We are in a break in an Ice Age. A brief break at that...)
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