Taj hotel cleared of militants [terrorists] - Mumbai Terror Attack Appears Over After Three Days

Sify.com ^ | Saturday, November 29, 2008

[kristinn]

Mumbai: Acting swiftly and decisively, Indian commandos launched a clinical operation on Saturday to eliminate two militants holed up in the iconic Taj hotel in Mumbai to end a 59-hour terror drama, the country's longest, which claimed 148 lives and soured ties with Pakistan.

The militants had attempted to create a diversion by torching two ground floor shops in the hotel's northern wing, hoping the thick black smoke would conceal their movements but this didn't work as the security forces required just over 20 minutes to eliminate them.

"The operation is over," an extremely pleased Mumbai Police Commissioner Hasan Gafoor told reporters at the hotel, even as cleanup operations were underway.

[Cronos]

I'm going to clarify my position -- the philosophy of Islam is wrong. Islam is fundamentally false and fundamentally wrong -- logically, factually, morally and philosophically.

What has islam given the world?:

1. every single terrorist attack this century,

2. Mohammed's massacre of the Jewish Meccans in the 7th century

3. Timur e Lang

4. Muhammad Ghor's slaughter of Hindus in the 10th century,

5. Muhammad Ghazni's attack on India in the middle ages,

6. The Iraqis destroying Assyrian Christian Churches and murdering bishops and priests,

7. Today's attack on a Coptic Church in Egypt,

8. Islamics attacking and raping children in Beslan,

9. Muslims beheading Buddhist priests in Thailand,

10. Muslim beheadings and terrorism in southern Philippines,

11. Muslim terrorists bombing innocent party-goers in Bali,

12. Muslim terrorists bombing trains in London,

13. Muslimes bombing trains in Spain,

14. Muslims bombing trains in Bombay, Bangalore, Jaipur,

15. Muslims killing Christians and forcing conversions in Northern Nigeria,

16. Saudi Arabia arresting people for possesing Bibles or Gitas or even having a Church or Temple,

17. Somali taxi-drivers in Minnesota refusing to take blind people with seeing eye dogs,

18. Muslims attacking Israel in '48, '67, '71,

19. Muslims slaughtering Hindus and Sikhs after partitioning INdia (and still leaving a remnant of Muslims in India),

20. Islam reducing Zoroastrians in Iran, Buddhists in Central Asia, Christians in the Middle East to dhimmitude and forcibly taking their sons and daughters and converting them and putting them as janissaries or into the harem.

I could go on.

The root cause is the philosophy of death preached by Islam. Islam is no more than a mish-mash of pre-Islamic worship of the moon god Sin (with his daughters allat, Uzzat and Amat) mixed with misunderstandings from Zoroastrianism, Arianism, Judaism and Nestorian Christianity.

Islam's holy book reads like the Mein Kampf -- zero coherence, contradicting itself and contradicting history.

Islam's philosophy is at root based on wrong data or wilful misinterpretation of data and history: e.g. for 2640 years the Israelites said Abraham was about to sacrifice Isaac, however Mohammed comes and says no, it was Ishmael (an attempt to link Arabs to Abraham and mish-mash Judaism so that Mohammed could form an Arab league).

Another one -- the Koran says that Mary gave birth to Christ under a tree in the desert: completely unlike the description in the bible and suspiciously like the other description of a birth in Revelations: proof that Mohammed mish-mashed bits and pieces to form his cult

There are more including the Hadiths that say the sun revolves around the earth (note: it's in the HAdith so is a tenet of Islamic belief).


The Koran also preaches death to infidels and mandates their killing. No other religion does that.

For Islamics, the only solution is for all to convert (or as they say it, to revert) to Islam. nothing else.

Tell me one good thing, one new philosophy that the profit brought? None. This cult started out as a personal chance to grab power by unifying tribes and it grew to a culture of death, worship of the demon Chemosh's lord, Satan.
What will it take for people to realize the Koran (Muslims consider every word in the Koran to be the sacred word of God) instructs them to kill us and take our lands?

80- 90 percent of the Koran is filled with hate, racism, bigotry and unimaginable cruelty.

The terrorists haven’t ‘hijacked Islam’. They have only followed instructions in the manual of murder and mayhem, the Koran.

THE KORAN PROMISES COUNTRIES TO CONQUER AND THE SPOILS THERIN:
Sura 33 “And he bequeathed to you their lands, their homes and their possessions, together with land you have never trodden” (33.27) .

MUSLIMS ARE INSTRUCTED IN THE KORAN TO BE STILL UNTIL THEY HAVE THE NUMBERS IN THE COUNTRIES THEY HAVE INVADED:
“Be patient with unbelievers until you have strength” (86.17).

THE KORAN INSTRUCTS MUSLIMS TO FIGHT CHRISTIANS, JEWS AND CONQUER THE WORLD FOR ISLAM:
(The following are only a few of the verses commanding Muslims to fight)

WARFARE IS ORDAINED FOR YOU, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that you hate a thing which is good for you and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. (2.216)

Fight those among the People of the Book [i.e. Jews and Christians] ... who do not profess the true religion, until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued. (9.29)

“AND FIGHT THEM UNTIL THERE IS NO PERSECUTION , AND RELIGION SHALL BE ONLY FOR ALLAH 2:193

Fight those among the People of the Book [i.e. Jews and Christians] ... who do not profess the true religion, until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued. (9.29)

Quran 9:33 ISLAM WILL PREVAIL OVER ALL RELIGIONS

THE FOUNDER OF CAIR HAS TOLD US PLAINLY OF ISLAM’S plans for AMERICA:

“ISLAM ISN’T IN AMERICA TO BE EQUAL TO ANY OTHER FAITH, BUT TO BECOME DOMINANT. The Koran ... should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth. Everthing we need to know is in the Koran. We don’t need to look somewhere else.” OMAR M. AHMAD, CHAIRMAN OF CAIR,the mainsteam Muslim advocacy group.

Just how d*mn plain do the Muslims have to make it before we ‘get it’??

.

[HollyB]

I appreciate your view, and to tell you the truth, I agree with you that the teachings in the Koran indicates everything you have said. But, what I am saying is that not all Muslims follow this hateful way. If calling them not true followers of Muslim, then fine, that is what they are. I think a good portion of many religions do not follow their religion to the exact scripture...probably just doing the basics. I am sure thoes are the ones I have met. I am in full understanding what the WOT is about and I understand the general history of Islam. But, I also appreciate other cultures, and refuse to shun a person because of their religion or because they are different, unless that ‘person’ gives me reason to. This is not saying that Muslim countries feel the same way. But, that is what makes western culture different than theirs. I am not walking around with a blind fold on, I am just willing to give an individual a chance. It does not mean being naive or not being vigilent, it just means giving an ‘individual’ a chance. How would you react if you were in a position of interacting with a Muslim? You would do what you had to do - work, finish a task, etc? And what if during a period of time you realized that this person was just as human and caring as any other person? Try to see outside of the box, ok?

[Cronos]

VAlid point about not shunning people. However, IslamIS NOT a culture. Would you shun a Neo-Nazi? I AM working with muslims btw -- am normally based in the UK but am right now in Bahrain, so yes I know most of the people are decent sorts, however, the philosophy is so evil and twisted that you never knew when it will grab one of your knowns and make them into these nutjobs becauseIslam is like THAT.

I work with them just fine, but I do ask them about Buddhism, Zoroastrianism etc. (surprisinly many Iranis and Bahraini Shias are interested in knowing about that) rather than Christianity (which triggers the idea of Americanism to them)

Just as caring -- the Nazis were also just as caring -- many didn't even take part in any of the concentration camps or even attacks on Jews, but they were guilty of not rejecting their hateful philosophy. The only way out was to destroy that philosophy and "convert" the Nazis to other philosophies.

I repeat -- would you shun a neo-Nazi? I would

[HollyB]

Ok, I think we are coming to somewhat of an agreement. It helps to know that you interact with them, just as I have had to. It also concerns me just as much - when you said that evil aspects could grab hold of them. I pray not, I pray the people I have met stay westernized and have no interest in this ‘backwards’ way of life. But, trust me, I stay vigilent. You are visiting areas in which Islam is the majority. In those situations, I am sure the religion is practiced more seriously than among those I know.

The concern I have, just as you have indicated is that muslim countries are not condemning the philosphy which is gaining strength. Why isn’t CAIR speaking out against this, I don’t know. But, the fact that they do not and Leaders of muslim dominated countries do not speak out on a regular basis against these actions says something in itself. I think Pakistan’s government wants to participate in the WOT, but they are overwhelmed with so many extremists, so much territory that is run by religious leaders, that the Gov’t is not in full control. They are trying to maintain a balancing act, but it is not working. We will see how India decides to handle this recent attack. I can’t blame them if they retaliate, but both countries may be loose canons and create even a larger regional war. A few hours after the attacks started, I said, these guys were trained in Pakistan, and the Indian Gov’t will probably feel, ‘if you can’t get a handle on your people, we’ll take care of it for you’.

We will see. But, it doesn’t look good.

[HollyB]

When I said ‘backwards’, I am referring to the violence and attacks the extremists are causing on innocent people. These acts are evil, but I didn’t explain myself enough and figured you’d pick up on that one.

[Cronos]

Yes -- I see that you despise the ideology ofIslam too.

Just condemning it is not of any use. What is needed is a true conversion from that religion to maybe a Bahai or buddhist religion or even back to Christianity.

[HollyB]

It’s interesting that you state that conversions to another religion may change our situation. Being a Chritian, there is something that tugs at me with that statement. It makes me wonder if that is how a one world religion may come about.

[gost2]

No amount of factual evidence will convince someone that has their ears stopped, their eyes covered, no guts and determined to believe in a fairy tale.

[null and void]

flipped out when you put a “God Bless America” sign? Why? What reasons did he give?

The reason he gave was I was "bringing religion into the workplace".

Do you believe that? I don't. I was raining on his parade.

I put this up the next day:

[HollyB]

I have a question for you, if on the job, you work with someone and that someone is a muslim. That Muslim has shown you that he/she means no harm, do not follow extremism, and they are doing their job and are very respectful to co-workers. What would you do, how would you react?

Probably just as I have done.

[Citizen Blade]

If you have any Muslims neighbors etc. remember that their philosophy is evil and they will kill you or your children/grandchildren or both.

Your statement is, frankly, nonsense. We have Iranian friends who are Muslim and another friend who is a Muslim from Russia. They are no more likely to kill us than any of our other friends.

[jusduat]

They wouldn't kill you, but they would understand if you
had a bad daughter who needed to be stoned. They would
understand that you did not need to own any property or
that you'd need to have your hand chopped off if you tried
to steal to feed your family after a devout muslin replaced
you on the job. This is how they run their own countries
and how they want this country to operate. Ask if they
think Sharia law is good for a community and if you'd be
better off if you'd only revert to Islam. Maybe they don't
really believe this, but they have to go along with the
tenants of the religion so they are not punished by the
Imans. Islam's first victim is the believer.

[Citizen Blade]

They wouldn't kill you, but they would understand if you had a bad daughter who needed to be stoned. They would understand that you did not need to own any property or that you'd need to have your hand chopped off if you tried to steal to feed your family after a devout muslin replaced you on the job. .

Um, no, they wouldn't. They're as American in their outlook as you or I. I have a feeling that you don't really know any American Muslims well.

This is how they run their own countries and how they want this country to operate.

The Muslims I know, at least, moved here (or their parents moved here) because they were sick of the way things are run in their native countries. They like living in the US where they are free to live their lives peacefully and freely without interference from radical mullahs.

ask if they think Sharia law is good for a community and if you'd be better off if you'd only revert to Islam.

None of them have shown the slightest interest in converting me or in sharia law. Like I said, they moved to this country for freedom and opportunity, not to recreate the countries they left.

they don't really believe this, but they have to go along with the tenants of the religion so they are not punished by the Imans.

Two of the Muslims I know are lawyers (including a Federal prosecutor) and one is a defense contractor. They have no fear of some radical Imam (not Iman- that's a model married to David Bowie) telling them what to do. And the word is "tenets," not "tenants."

[HollyB]

Good luck trying to convince them. I think it’s fruitless.

[Cronos]

I say that conversions to another religion will change the situation. Why? Because the fact is thatIslam through the centuries has proven that it is incompatible with other religions. It has never learnt to get along with others. When the % of M’s is less than 5% they are all nice. When it is 10 to 20% like in India or Russia, they get antsy, when it is 50% then it’s like in Malaysia where non-M’s are second class citizens and where converts from Islam are met with death sentences. Then >50% is when the fun really begins and it becomes like Egypt. When 100% mark is touched then it is a land of peace like Saudiarabia where you will be arrested if you have a Bible.

[Cronos]

The way to act in the workplace is fine — business-like. However, I would not encourage their beliefs inside the office. outside, I would, if I knew them well, give them books on other religions to read —> you’d be astounded by what they are taught as kids. I have seen a childrens book for them teaching other religions and the works on Christianity and Zoroastrianism were plain false. for instance they say that Christians worship multiple gods and are not true monotheists.

[Cronos]

Note my point -- their philosophy is evil. I stand by that. My second point should be moderated to "it will kill you or your children/grandchildren or both." -- by that I mean as I've pointed out in my post above this. Irani dissidents are good people and many I know have returned to Zoroastrianism.

[HollyB]

These statistics say alot. Does it appear that Islam is growing within the US since 9/11? If so, do you think it due to new conversions or immigration?

[Cronos]

Both of you guys talk about things just living in America where M's are <1% of the population. I've lived in Bahrain, Oman, France, the UK, Singapore and have visited on long duration India, Lebanon, Malaysia, Egypt and even Iran (just before the revolution). Yes, most of the people I met were nice, if not all -- oh, wait a minute, all the Sauds I've met were rotters and pretty much hated even by other Arabs. Yes, the ones I met were all disinterested in their religion. However, they did get uncomfortable if you ask them their views about someone converting fromIslm who would be killed in their countries and many had relatives who got sucked into a deeper reading of the K and became, as you call it "radical".

That is the key difference -- a person taking deeper interest in C is a scholar and content to reflect on God while that in I is more interested in wreaking mayhem against those who disobey A by not worhipping him. A mystic in Christianity is a monk or a hermit, while that in I is considered a heretic (like Dervishes, many Sufis etc).

I know Holly has said she's read the K, but have both of you really read it in it's entirety? Have you lived or visited anislamic country? Do so and it would be enlightening. There is nothing wrong with the people, but the philosophy spreads insiduously.

Like my point about neo-Nazis -- Adolf Eichman was supposedly a nice, soft-spoken, well-mannered chap: even to his Mossad captors. But his philosophy was barbaric.

[Cronos]

Yes, Islam is growing in the US. The reasons are primarily immigration from Somalia. In the 60s etc african-americans converted as they thought it would be a saving from Christianity. However, they forget that the word for Negro in arabic -- abd -- also means slave and that slavery was facilitated byIslamics and they still maintain such slavery in the Sudan and even in Saudiarabia.

Anyway, that's off track. It is now growing due to immigration.

you may have read about Somali drivers in Minnesota refusing to take blind people with their seeing eye dogs in their taxi. The reason for that is that the dog is an unclean animal as stated in the Hadiths.

Many of the IRanis I know in Britain have rejected their old religion completely and that is good. I haven't met many M's in the US who have done that.