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Andrew Sullivan is the most eloquent gay proponent for same sex marriage. Its not enough for conservatives to say man-woman marriage is the constitutive unit of society. The reality is we can't agree to a lie. The lie is that same sex marriage is morally equivalent to man-woman marriage. That can never be since there is a qualitative moral difference between homosexual and heterosexual relationships. Thus, marriage is a moral - not a civil rights - issue. Radical gay activists want more than just tolerance; they want society to approve of their identity. Since nature abhors a vacuum, we are going to get one or the other set of values established as the benchmark for our lives. They are in tension and cannot co-exist. I love Andrew Sullivan as a fellow human being but I'm not prepared to lie or to give up my values for him or for any one else.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

1 posted on 11/26/2008 4:27:07 PM PST by goldstategop
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To: goldstategop
He is a Catholic, conservative in many things, and a highly articulate spokesman for his point-of-view. What do you say?

He's a Catholic in name only.
An apostate.

2 posted on 11/26/2008 4:39:18 PM PST by XR7
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To: goldstategop

Funny, when bacteria joins the manstream, it’s called a bladder infection.


3 posted on 11/26/2008 4:39:30 PM PST by xcamel (Conservatives start smart, and get rich, liberals start rich, and get stupid.)
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To: goldstategop

The homosexual lobby really needs to take care. If they, through liberal (extra-constitutional) jurisprudence force homosexual marriage on America at large, I can anticipate a serious backlash.

Wars have been fought for far less than the redefinition of a timeless institution. Everyplace is not like California...even, as we’ve seen in Prop. 8, California.


4 posted on 11/26/2008 4:39:56 PM PST by AnalogReigns
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To: goldstategop

The best explanation and reasoning for traditional marriage is by Dr. Alan Keyes. Has anyone seen this Youtube of Alan Keyes v. Obama in 2004. He is on point. Listen intently to his arguments and it is so precise. Obama and moderator are tied up and they go after transient argument to derail his line of thinking. This is notetaking time. He is like a professor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG5u04Gbg0A


5 posted on 11/26/2008 4:40:50 PM PST by CalifScreaming
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To: goldstategop

it’s a scam. Like somebody setting a rock up in his yard, claiming he’s a Druid and wanting his property tax exempt like any other church. Nobody’s feelings need to be hurt, it’s just the answer is, “no, you don’t qualify. “ I can’t collect Social Security checks like the lady that retired last year, it’s not agism, I have no right to be offended , even though I’m sure I’ve paid more in over the years and she’s probably got a much higher chance of collecting a lot more over the years than I ever will when I, God willing, retire much closer to my actuarial projection. I don’t qualify. I can develop a grievance mentality about it or not. I still don’t qualify.


6 posted on 11/26/2008 4:43:10 PM PST by gusopol3
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To: goldstategop
What I would say to Andrew Sullivan then is, I love you, but don't ask me to lie.

I know this is a serious article, but I'm not sure if that's the best thing to say to Andrew Sullivan. He might take it the wrong way.

7 posted on 11/26/2008 4:43:38 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: goldstategop

Conservatives always get pushed into the moral argument on this issue. While I agree wholeheartedly with the moral difference, it would be a just and stronger position to argue that any society has right to promote the nuclear family. It is the best way to produce and raise future generations.
This is unequivocably true. A society which ignores or circumvents this truth is destinied to lose demographically.
Seeking our own destruction is fine with some but a weak point to make to the majority, I hope.
The gay movement was long ago co-opted by liberals who wish to attack the American family for their own reasons.
“We don’t need families, we need a village.”
We do need the family unit and there is plenty of evidence around that it needs support and promotion. If we don’t defend it we’ll end up like the rest of non-reproducing western world.
Again, that probably sounds wonderful to liberals but not yet to the average American.
Nuclear families, traditional families should not be dirty words and if we don’t draw a line then we will become a village of God knows what, with our primary allegiance to the state.


9 posted on 11/26/2008 4:55:01 PM PST by Arkady
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To: goldstategop

My recent letter to the editor on this same subject:

I had to laugh at your Speaking Out question: “Should states allow or ban gay marriages?” You may as well have asked about banning unicorns or allowing dragons.

So called gay marriages are a fiction, a clever fabrication to achieve a political end.

People are born either male or female, and each sex is obviously designed for the other. Furthermore, every adult already has the right to marry.

The primary purpose of marriage is the generation and nurturing of children followed closely by the companionship and mutual aid of husband and wife.

These principles can be arrived at by common sense, and they show marriage to be a natural institution of great value to the individual, the family and the nation.

The carnal activities of men with men and women with women are the culmination of unnatural desire and simply represent capitulation to sexual vice.

Such unions can never be marriages, and the yelps and rallies of the few, the proud and the sexually deviant should not influence citizens to debauch marriage.

In countries where it has been tried, fewer people marry; demands for legalization of polygamy grow; schools teach children that homosexuality is normal; and freedom of conscience and speech are threatened.

Consenting adults should be allowed to form domestic partnerships, whether they involve sexual activity or not.

Marriage, however, as affirmed by the citizens of all 30 states that have allowed a vote, is the union of one man and one woman.


11 posted on 11/26/2008 5:12:27 PM PST by redfog
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To: goldstategop

Gays claim there is no qualitative moral difference and if you insist that there is, then you will be called a homophobic bigot.

It IS enough for conservatives to say that it is the constitutive unit of society and that same sex marriage is not the biological equivialent of heterosexual marriage and never can be. They can’t call you names over an obvious scientific fact without looking like the deranged thinkers they are.

They want us to ignore biological reality and pretend to a lie for their own moral comfort. I’m not going to give up reality for Andrew Sullivan no matter how much he stamps his feet.


13 posted on 11/26/2008 5:12:54 PM PST by Valpal1 (Always be prepared to make that difference.)
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To: goldstategop

Homosexual militant activists like Andrew Sullivan and Dan Savage are ratcheting up their threats against traditional families. They are no longer even pretending to be open-minded, but are instead openly spewing the most vicious bile against normal heterosexual people:

Dan Savage: “run and hide behind ‘Nothing personal—just my private religious beliefs!’ That game’s over.”

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2008/11/26/when_are_your_privately_held

There you have it. The homosexuals militants have literally declared war on all religion. I have a feeling their threats are only going to make them a more outcast alternative deathstyle community.


20 posted on 11/26/2008 6:28:38 PM PST by DestinyEagle
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To: goldstategop

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1517040/posts

Marriage is a house built for a man and a woman.
Let the homosexuals go build their own house.


21 posted on 11/26/2008 7:24:17 PM PST by kanawa
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To: goldstategop

I take a biological position. Same sex marriage cuts the definition of marriage off from procreation, mother and father and, for the child, next of kin on both sides of the family. Basically, same sex marriage separates marriage from biology. What remains is an adult-centered institution that has no particular connection to the future and therefore no importance in the long run. The destruction of marriage is, in fact, the goal of some activists who see marriage as oppressive and patriarchal.


26 posted on 11/27/2008 10:10:36 AM PST by beejaa
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