Posted on 11/25/2008 2:23:18 PM PST by AAABEST
This killer graduated from West Point.
My question all these years has been why did he not make the military his career unless he was kicked out.
Anybody got any ideas?
Thank you.
Another baffling point for me. He has a Japanese name, but he is Chinese in appearance.
Bush was president during the Ruby Ridge fiasco.
I hate the Bushes - they betrayed the Reagan Revolution and sowed the seeds for Clinton and Obama.
He’s back....
I sent them an email about this back when this came to light.
No response.
I haven’t bought any of their products since 07 either......my last rifle with their stock .
Doom on em.....
Now he (it/she/ ) just don't wants to talk about the two Nicaraguans (the one's buried in Arlington National Cemetery) that were murdered after being taken from the San Bernarnido County Jail -— then he and I will talk... And the chances of that happening are?????(Slim to None)
Sorry, I can't let this statement pass without comment. Whatever else he may be, he did not murder Vicky Weaver "in cold blood". He was shooting at Randy Weaver as Randy was running for the house. His first shot missed Randy and Vicky opened the door to speed up Randy's entry into the house. Horiuchi took a second shot, leading his "target" and as he took that shot, Vicky opened the door. The door opened outward and Vicky stepped into the space where the shot was aimed. The bullet passed through the glass window in the door, through a curtain over the window and hit her in the head. Horiuchi never even saw her because she was behind the door (from his perspective) when she stepped onto the porch. The shot was taken from about 300 yards.
Killer; yes. Criminal, yes. Intentional shooting; yes. Failure to refuse to follow an unlawful order; yes. Cold blooded murder; no.
One FBI sniper team that responded to Ruby Ridge that I trained with after the incident refused to take their posts when told the rules of engagement. Gotta respect that.
I know this is a dusty thread so apologies if anyone is irritated by that. Then again, topics like this cannot be over discussed because generations need to understand important events. Anyway, here goes...
My reading of the events from various sources all indicate that Vicki (God bless her soul) was the victim of a shot that wasn’t being aimed at her. She was standing behind a wooden door which was opened by Kevin Harris. Horiuchi was shooting at Harris and in fact the same shot which killed Vicki apparently also had struck Harris wounding him in the chest (yeah, I know - I’d like to see the ballistics analysis on that one too).
Still it was wrong. Later a task force investigating the seige found that Lon Horiuchi’s action in firing through a door was “inexcusable” since (1) he could not be sure if someone else was behind the door and (2) the Weavers and Harris were running for cover when the shot was taken, not returning fire.
There is no shortage of opinions on this incident but we’re all entitled to ours. Here’s mine: Ruby Ridge was the result of overzealousness of U.S. federal law enforcement agencies, specifically (IMO) the FBI HRT. A reading of the Rules of Engagement for that event pretty much unanimously invokes a “what the fu#&” reaction, even at the time from some officials on the scene. They were far too aggressive for the situation.
As to Lon Horiuchi’s actions that day, it is difficult not to come to the conclusion that his personality appears to be one of the “gee, I hope I’m allowed to shoot somebody today” variety. Was he operating with the rules of engagement with the first shot, the one which wounded Randy Weaver? Yes, he was technically clean on that first shot. But Weaver clearly was not posing any direct threat to him or any member of the law enforcement community at the time Horiuchi pulled the trigger that first time. Human judgement and conscience, it seems, should have intervened in Lon’s mind at that moment. The second shot (the one which killed Vicki and Wounded Kevin) was shaky according to the ROE, and clearly uncalled for in terms of human judgement. Lon, it appears, was a little trigger happy that day.
The FBI of course closed around Lon and protected their own. This is natural. I just hope that vetting of HRT snipers is now inclusive of weeding out the mentalities that WANT to shoot.
I had completely forgotten about this affair.
Any idea what ended up happening with the company using Horiuchi as a spokesman?
None. I am an ex service member of combat arms, and as such, realize that guns are tools of a trade. If you hunt for a living, own the right tools. If you defend something with deadly force, own the right tools. If you build houses, own the right tools.
The second amendment protects the right of Americans to keep and bear arms. All well and good. It is the responsibility of private Americans, ultimately, to defend the freedom of private Americans. I however have not felt the need to arm myself against the government. If they start showing up at intersections hassling me or telling me what to think (as opposed to suggesting what I should think) I’ll think this: time for the firing range. Until then, guns and gun manufacturers just don’t place that highly on my daily priority list.
GOD DEFEND the right of those who DO wish to ensconse themselves in the world of firearms. I certainly believe in the right.
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