Posted on 11/23/2008 6:30:41 PM PST by Red Steel
Not according to the US State Department Foreign Affairs Manual:
7 FAM 1131.6 Nature of Citizenship Acquired by Birth Abroad to U.S. Citizen Parents
7 FAM 1131.6-1 Status Generally (TL:CON-68; 04-01-1998)
Persons born abroad who acquire U.S. citizenship at birth by statute generally have the same rights and are subject to the same obligations as citizens born in the United States who acquire citizenship pursuant to the 14th Amendment to the Constitution. One exception is that they may be subject to citizenship retention requirements.
7 FAM 1131.6-2 Eligibility for Presidency (TL:CON-68; 04-01-1998).
It has never been determined definitively by a court whether a person who acquired U.S. citizenship by birth abroad to U.S. citizens is a naturalborn citizen within the meaning of Article II of the Constitution and, therefore, eligible for the Presidency.
b. Section 1, Article II, of the Constitution states, in relevant part that “No Person except a natural born Citizen...shall be eligible for the Office of President;”
c. The Constitution does not define "natural born". The “Act to establish an Uniform Rule of Naturalization”, enacted March 26, 1790, (1 Stat. 103,104) provided that, “...the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born ... out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens: Provided that the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States.”
7 FAM 1130 Page 8 of 103
U.S. Department of State Foreign Affairs Manual Volume 7 - Consular Affairs
7 FAM 1130 Page 9 of 103
d. This statute is no longer operative, however, and its formula is not included in modern nationality statutes. In any event, the fact that someone is a natural born citizen pursuant to a statute does not necessarily imply that he or she is such a citizen for Constitutional purposes.
7 FAM 1131.6-3 Not Citizens by “Naturalization” (TL:CON-68; 04-01-1998) Section 201(g) NA and section 301(g) INA (formerly section 301(a)(7) INA) both specify that naturalization is "the conferring of nationality of a state upon a person after birth." Clearly, then, Americans who acquired their citizenship by birth abroad to U.S. citizens are not considered naturalized citizens under either act.
7 FAM 1130 Page 9 of 103
INTREP
You cannot be a natural born citizen, if you were not born on US soil. Children born on overseas military bases are not natural born citizens. Current State Department policy reads: “Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. deplomatic or consular facilites are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth.”
The US Constitution Article ll section 1. It says “No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constituion, shall be eligible to the Office of President; niether shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fouteen Years a Resident within the United States.” Many people get this all wrong too. It says “No Person except a natural born Citizen” - “or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution,”. Many people misread this line and think that any citizen can be President, but what it was saying is either a natural born Citizen OR any citizen who was alive at the time the Constitution was adopted. Unless you know of any candidates that are 256 years old, the President must be a Natural Born Citizen.
Okay-but what is a natural born citizen? Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona when it was still a territory. McCain was born in the Pamana Canal Zone.
US citizenship can pass through either parent. Being born in the US is sufficient in and of itself regardless of the citizenship of your parents. That's the "what and why" of anchor babies. The laws regarding citizenship at birth have changed over time. The statute at the time of 0's birth, the one that would apply, was this:
1952 The Immigration and Nationality Act of June 27, 1952, 66 Stat. 163, 235, 8 U.S. Code Section 1401 (b). (Section 301 of the Act).
"Section 301. (a) The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
"(1) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
"(7) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States, who prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years."
The specific facts that determine 0's citizenship are where and when was he born? He claims to have been born in HI on August 4, 1961. The date is not in dispute, but the location is. At the time of 0's birth his mother was 18 years 8 months 6 days old. That means that at the time of 0's birth, discounting all the travel time outside of the US, the maximum time she could have resided in the US after the age of 14 was 4 years 8 months 6 days. That she was a citizen at the time is not disputed. That the father was an alien from Kenya, and a British subject, is not disputed. The dispute is as to the location of 0's birth. If he was born in Kenya then he was not a citizen because his citizen parent (mother) did not meet the residency requirements.
Now, as to whether he is natural born or not, the Constitution only distinguishes two types of citizen: naturalized or natural born. If you are born a citizen you are natural born, if you, at some point after you were born, had to go through a process to become a citizen, you are naturalized. There is no third "born a citizen but not natural born" category. There is no Constitutional basis for it. There is no basis in law. It doesn't exist.
"So you can see that the founders did not allow dual citizenship, for even a naturalized citizen."
The founders did not allow naturalized citizens to have dual citizenship - they wanted new citizens to commit fully or not at all. It has no bearing on natural born citizens, else dual citizenship for any US citizens would be impossible and that is certainly not the case. The 1952 statute makes no reference to dual citizenship at all. The US law doesn't care what other nations might consider you a citizen, for the most part, but expects you to renounce any foreign allegiance upon reaching adulthood (some other countries do not, Canada, for instance). We have no evidence that 0 did or did not renounce his British citizenship, but there is no formal or official process that I am aware of so we can't dispute it. Further, there is no requirement that you remain a citizen, only that you be born a citizen, so if 0 is hiding a change of citizenship he isn't violating the Constitution (except in spirit) in that regard.
Really, the only disputed factor is where he was born. HI=natural born US citizen, Kenya=British subject at birth.
I don’t think we’re talking about the same law. What law are you referring to?
If you look at the United States Naturalization Law of March 26, 1790, it states “the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born Citizens”. So we can learn from this that you have to be the child of US citizens, to be a natural born citizen. Now that law was repealed and replaced by the The Naturalization Act of 1795 which now stated that “the children of citizens of the United States born out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States, shall be considered as “citizen of the United States.” “This act, signed into law by George Washington himself, dropped the “natural born” phrase. So from this we can see the only way you can be a natural born citizen, is to be born to US citizens on US soil.
McCain was born in Panama (the country, not a US possession), not in the Canal Zone (a US possession at the time). His parents were both US citizens so he is a natural born citizen.
Also John McCain would not be considered eligible to be President. He is not natural born either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM8BwErMkAk
George Romney’s parents, although both were citizens of the U.S., did not qualify George to become legally the President of the U.S. because he was born in Mexico and therefore a citizen of the U.S. but Not a natural born citizen. According to the Constitution one has to be a natural born citizen. The reverse could also happen that two people sneak over the border and have their child here. The child is a US citizen, but again he is not natural born, because his parents are citizens in Mexico. The child could also claim dual citizenship and have loyalty to Mexico and the USA
You might have a case against the DNC if you could prove intent, but the election would not be invalidated. There is a Constitutional remedy for an unqualified President elect. Depending on when this finally gets resolved we get:
1) Anybody Qualified/Biden (BHO disqualified before the EC AND the Electors pick someone who is eligible, faithless elector laws not withstanding)
2) McCain/Biden (Obama's electors are challenged in the Joint Session and the House is forced to choose McCain as the only other Electoral Vote receiving candidate)
3) Nobody/Biden (as in 2 above but the House refuses to choose McCain - they just sit on their hands. There is no time limit to the process once the election goes to the House. Biden would be Acting President until the House chooses or a new election (2012) provides a qualified President and/or VP.)
4) Biden/? (Obama makes it all the way to the White House but gets impeached after being found ineligible)
5) Obama/Biden (he is eligible)
6) Civil War (Obama is exposed as ineligible and nobody in government does anything about it so we march on Washington)
The above scenarios do not include Biden or anyone other than Obama being implicated in the fraud.
You cannot be a natural born citizen, if you were not born on US soil. Children born on overseas military bases are not natural born citizens. Current State Department policy reads: “Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. deplomatic or consular facilites are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth.”
The US Constitution Article ll section 1. It says “No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constituion, shall be eligible to the Office of President; niether shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fouteen Years a Resident within the United States.” Many people get this all wrong too. It says “No Person except a natural born Citizen” - “or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution,”. Many people misread this line and think that any citizen can be President, but what it was saying is either a natural born Citizen OR any citizen who was alive at the time the Constitution was adopted. Unless you know of any candidates that are 256 years old, the President must be a Natural Born Citizen.
If you look at the United States Naturalization Law of March 26, 1790, it states “the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born Citizens”. So we can learn from this that you have to be the child of US citizens, to be a natural born citizen.
Now that law was repealed and replaced by the The Naturalization Act of 1795 which now stated that “the children of citizens of the United States born out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States, shall be considered as “citizen of the United States.” “This act, signed into law by George Washington himself, dropped the “natural born” phrase. So from this we can see the only way you can be a natural born citizen, is to be born to US citizens on US soil.
the real question is WHY American citizens can’t have official copies of birth certificates required of our elected officials.....
The Constitution identifies only two types of citizen, naturalized or natural born. If you were born a citizen you are natural born. If you became a citizen at some point after birth, you a a naturalized citizen. There is plenty of precedent - John McCain, George Romney, millions of children born to servicemen stationed overseas. Are you prepared to claim that a child of an illegal immigrant that just happened to have been smuggled across the border in its mother's womb the day before being born CAN become POTUS and the children of members of the Armed Forces who happen to be born where ever their parents happen to be stationed overseas by their own government CANNOT? You are quoting a State Department manual to support this position? There is no third class of citizen "born a citizen but not natural born". No such distinction is made in the Constitution or in actual law. The applicable and pertinent law has already been posted. The US State Department Foreign Affairs Manual is not law.
Interestingly, Obama claims that he is a citizen of the U.S. according to the 14th Amendment. That reads,’:Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunites of citizens of the United Staes, nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law, nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”
So how would this make Obama a natural born citizen? The very requirement needed to become the President! It doesn’t!
Uhhh....Barack Obama has resigned from the Senate.
Uhhh....Barack Obama has resigned from the Senate.
That means that you can't just sneak onto a US base and drop an anchor baby. Children born to US citizens are US citizens by birth because their parents or parent (with very limited exceptions that just might happen to apply to 0) were US citizens when the child was born. See the 1952 Statute cited above.
The US Constitution Article ll section 1. It says “No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constituion, shall be eligible to the Office of President; niether shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fouteen Years a Resident within the United States.” Many people get this all wrong too. It says “No Person except a natural born Citizen” - “or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution,”. Many people misread this line and think that any citizen can be President, but what it was saying is either a natural born Citizen OR any citizen who was alive at the time the Constitution was adopted. Unless you know of any candidates that are 256 years old, the President must be a Natural Born Citizen.
I am quite clear on the distinction. Whether 0 is a citizen now isn't even relevant, only whether he was at birth.
If you look at the United States Naturalization Law of March 26, 1790, it states “the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born Citizens”. So we can learn from this that you have to be the child of US citizens, to be a natural born citizen. Now that law was repealed and replaced by the The Naturalization Act of 1795 which now stated that “the children of citizens of the United States born out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States, shall be considered as “citizen of the United States.” “This act, signed into law by George Washington himself, dropped the “natural born” phrase. So from this we can see the only way you can be a natural born citizen, is to be born to US citizens on US soil.
That is an incorrect conclusion. There is absolutely no basis for it. Please refer to the The Immigration and Nationality Act of June 27, 1952 and please provide a citation that explicitly declares what you claim to be true that actually has the force of law. Since there are two and only two Constitutional classes of citizenship it seems clear to me that being born a citizen is the same as being a natural born citizen and the lawmakers never felt there would be a need to clarify it further. Furthermore, if you or anyone else can provide a citation that contradicts my position explicitly I will be happy to see it since it makes the case against 0 that much stronger (even though we would get Biden instead).
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