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To: mrs9x
I think what you are missing is the distinction between a “citizen” and a “natural born citizen”. Leo is not arguing that Obama, if born in Hawaii, is not a citizen. Rather, he is arguing that because he was also a citizen of Great Britain, that he is not a “natural born” citizen, and thus cannot serve as President.

And that question has already been answered. As the Supreme Court found in 1898, children born in the U.S. are natural born citizens regardless of their race, regardless of their parent's citizenship status. The question was summed up in the closing paragraph: "The evident intention, and the necessary effect, of the submission of this case to the decision of the court upon the facts agreed by the parties, were to present for determination the single question, stated at the beginning of this opinion, namely, whether a child born in the United States, of parents of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the emperor of China, but have a permanent domicile and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States. For the reasons above stated, this court is of opinion that the question must be answered in the affirmative."

Substitute Kenya for China, and you still find that the court ruled Obama is a natural born U.S. citizen.

378 posted on 11/21/2008 11:51:12 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur

If he was born in Hawaii he would clearly be a natural born citizen. If he was born in Kenya, like some reports, he may not be. If he gave up his citizenship in Indonesia, he might not be either.


381 posted on 11/21/2008 11:55:29 AM PST by NathanR ( Drill here. Drill now. Pay less.)
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To: Non-Sequitur
"but have a permanent domicile and residence in the United States"

Barack Obama Sr never did. He was a temporary visitor. His life-long allegiance was to Kenya, he was here on behalf of Kenya in order to be trained to be a future leader in Kenya, and he went back to Kenya a few years later, where he had a career in government.

"in the United States ... are there carrying on business"

That is, the Chinese parents had a personal stake in the economic liberty and laws within the US. Which Barack's dad never did - his politics were communist, allied with the USSR. Which, at the time, was our enemy in all practical effect.

"are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the emperor of China"

Well, now, Obama Sr. was here in what was very close to an official capacity, albeit it was unofficial. His visit as a student was in those attempts to strengthen ties between countries. He was here to be trained in the arts and sciences that he would bring back to Kenya as it became an independent nation.

So, thanks!

That pretty much reads out Obama. Under that precedent Obama would NOT be a natural born citizen. Good work, NS!

386 posted on 11/21/2008 12:04:28 PM PST by bvw
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To: Non-Sequitur
Still, even your good work must be called into question, I am afraid. We really can't rely on that precedent. We are talking about a legal term, a modifier, that in its place is 'sui generis' -- a thing unique.

We must consider precedents to the term "natural born" only in the context of qualification for President, or similar high, powerful position. There it must be taken in a stricter sense. Why? Because for the Presidency positions the Founders clearly wanted stronger strictures than for regular citizenship.

389 posted on 11/21/2008 12:10:14 PM PST by bvw
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