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To: TCH
All of Western civilization owes its birth, its liberty, its jurisprudence, and its prosperity and longevity to the Catholic Church, and the Christian moral code, without which no semblance of the above attributes would have risen from the rubble that was the old Roman Empire. That is not my opinion, but historical fact.

That era was called the Dark Ages. The light of science in those years was found in the Arab countries.

With the Renaissance and The Enlightenment the breakthroughs came when Europeans escaped the dominance of the churches and replaced unquestioned religious dogma with free and unfettered investigation.

That is not my opinion, but historical fact.

74 posted on 11/15/2008 10:48:15 AM PST by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman

B.S.:

Nicholas Copernicus (1473-1543) Polish astronomer. First mathematical system of planets going around Sun. Attended European universities. 1497 Became Canon in Catholic Church. 1533 Presented his system at Vatican. Pope Clement VII approved, urged Copernicus to publish; also by Catholic Bishop Guise, Cardinal Schonberg, and Protestant Professor George Rheticus. Copernicus never under threat of persecution. Referred to God in his works. Did not see his system in conflict with Bible.

Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1627) Philosopher. Established Scientific Method for discovery of truth, service to country and Church. Rejected atheism: “…a little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men’s minds about to religion; for while the mind of man looketh upon second causes scattered, it may sometimes rest in them, and go no further; but when it beholdeth the chain of them confederate, and linked together, it must needs fly to Providence and Deity.”

Johannes Kepler (1571-1630) Mathematician, Astronomer. Early work on light. Established laws of planetary motion. Came close to Newtonian concept of universal gravity. His idea of force changed astronomy radically. Extremely sincere, pious Lutheran. Works contain writings how space, heavenly bodies represent the Trinity. Suffered no persecution for open avowal of sun-centered system. Allowed to stay in Catholic Graz as a Professor (1595-1600) when other Protestants had been expelled!

Galileo Galilei (1564-1642) 1633 Published controversial work on solar system. No proofs of sun-centered system. Telescope discoveries did not indicate moving earth. His proof based on tides was invalid. He ignored Kepler’s elliptical orbits. Put Pope’s argument in mouth of simpletons, offending his old friend. Forbidden to teach sun-centered system. Did useful theoretical work on dynamics. Expressly said the Bible cannot err. Saw his system as alternate interpretation of biblical texts.

Rene Descartes (1596-1650) Mathematician, Scientist, Father of modern philosophy. Roman Catholic. Retained deep faith. At 24, sought to gather knowledge in one system of thought. Asked what could be known if all else doubted. Proposed “I think therefore I am.” Sought to establish God’s existence. Only if God exists and would not want us deceived by experiences, can we trust senses and logical thought processes. Wanted his God centered philosophy adopted as standard Roman Catholic teaching.

(Rene Descartes and Francis Bacon regarded as key figures in development of scientific methodology. Both had systems in which God was important, and both seem more devout than the average for their era.)

Isaac Newton (1642-1727) Genius, innovator in Optics, Mechanics, Mathematics, Chemistry. Saw mathematics, numbers central in all. Devoutly religious. Considerable work in biblical numerology. Aspects of beliefs not orthodox, but thought theology very important. In his system, God essential to nature, absoluteness of space. From Principia: “The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion on an intelligent and powerful Being.”

Robert Boyle (1791-1867) Chemist. Founder, key member of Royal Society. Encyclopedia Britannica: “His will endowed lectures ‘for proving the Christian religion against notorious infidels.’ Devout Protestant. Promoted Christian religion, giving money to translate, publish New Testament into Irish, Turkish. In 1690, developed theological views in The Christian Virtuoso, to show study of nature a central religious duty.” Wrote against atheists. More devoutly Christian than average in his era.

Michael Faraday (1791-1867) Son of blacksmith. One of greatest scientists of the 19th century. Work on electricity, magnetism revolutionized physics, and led to modern lifestyles, (computers, telephone lines, etc). Devout Christian member of Sandemanians, which significantly influenced and strongly affected way in which he approached, interpreted nature. Originating from Presbyterians, the Sandemanians rejected idea of state churches, tried to go back to New Testament Christianity.

Gregor Mendel (1822-1884) Abbot. Laid mathematical foundation of genetics in 1856 (3 years before Darwin published Origin of Species). Unknown until 1900, when botanists, rediscovered him. 1860’s notable for X-Clubs, dedicated to lessen religious influence, propagate image of conflict between science and religion. Darwin’s cousin, geneticist Francis Galton, a proponent of eugenics, wrote how the “priestly mind” not conducive to science, while a monk made breakthroughs in genetics.

William Thomson Kelvin (1824-1907) Physicist. More religious than average for era. Physicists George Gabriel Stokes (1819-1903) and James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879) also of deep Christian faith in era when many nominal, apathetic, or anti-Christian. Encyclopedia Britannica: “Maxwell regarded as scientist of 19th century who had greatest influence on 20th century physics; ranked with Newton, Einstein for fundamental contributions.” Creationist, estimated Earth 20-100M yrs, upper limit 500M.

Max Planck (1858-1947) Physicist. Quantum Theory. Revolutionized understanding of atomic, sub-atomic worlds. 1937 lecture “Religion and Naturwissenschaft” expressed view God everywhere present: “holiness of the unintelligible Godhead conveyed by holiness of symbols.” Atheists attach too much importance to symbols. Believed in almighty, all-knowing, beneficent God; that Science, religion wage “tireless battle against skepticism, dogmatism… against unbelief, superstition” with goal “toward God!”

Albert Einstein (1879-1955) Physicist. Britannica: “Firmly denying atheism, expressed belief in ‘Spinoza’s God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists.’ Said to physicist “I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details.” On Uncertainty Principle “God does not play dice.” On religion “Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.”


75 posted on 11/15/2008 11:22:27 AM PST by TCH (Another redneck clinging to guns and religion)
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To: Coyoteman

P.S. ... I have just cited for you 500 years of scientific achievement, advanced by renowned men of science whom also held a devout Christian faith. These were and remain giants of the scientific world, who were leaders in their fields of study, and whose contributions shaped our ideas on the universe, the solar system, and the planet we inhabit.

So, I stand on the shoulders of giants, men who knew this universe was created by an omnipresent, omni prescient being... the being we call God.

You, sir, stand on the shifting sands of indifference and relativism.


76 posted on 11/15/2008 11:39:19 AM PST by TCH (Another redneck clinging to guns and religion)
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To: Coyoteman
Still grinding that secular atheist political axe I see...
You ever read the communist manifesto? (rhetorical)
77 posted on 11/15/2008 11:58:35 AM PST by DirtyHarryY2K (Don't blame Texas.. No more RINO's or Mavericks)
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To: Coyoteman
As someone who seems to like collecting myths, I think that it's time you pierced one that you seem to hold near & dear. European history isn't as simplistic as you seem to believe it is. Much of the “dark” of the Dark Age had to do with Pagan & Arian tribalism.

The “Golden Age” of Islam had a lot to do with conquest & claiming advancements of all cultures they had conquered as Arabian.

85 posted on 11/15/2008 1:32:46 PM PST by GoLightly (Hey, Obama. When's my check going to get here?)
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