Military atheists want new rules on prayer

Stars and Stripes ^ | Wednesday, November 12, 2008 | By Leo Shane III

[PeteePie]

Coalition complains of religious discrimination in the services By Leo Shane III, Stars and Stripes Mideast edition, Wednesday, November 12, 2008

WASHINGTON — A coalition of atheists and agnostics wants the new White House to protect young military members from what they see as rampant religious discrimination in the services.

The Secular Coalition for America held a news conference Monday urging new rules against proselytizing and more training for chaplains on how to handle nonreligious troops.

"When they say ‘there are no atheists in foxholes’ it’s slanderous," said Wayne Adkins, a former Army first lieutenant who served in Iraq in 2004 and 2005. "To deny their existence is to deny that they serve."

[TCH]

I stated Galileo’s work was controversial, and for reasons more to do with his methods, lack of theoretical proofs, and his personality. Your argument is grasping at straws.

More revealing is a lack of rebuttal to the other men of science. How will you attempt to discredit them? I stand in awe of your vast intellectual prowess... not.

(Sound of deafening silence)

[DirtyHarryY2K]

I am suggesting your political bent aligns perfectly with theirs on this subject.

When will we see you on the financial threads pushing “conservatism” instead of throwing tantrums like Madd ellen Murry O’hare or Michael Newdow on the social threads fighting tooth and nail to rid society of religion? (rhetorical)

[Coyoteman]

I am suggesting your political bent aligns perfectly with theirs on this subject.

When will we see you on the financial threads pushing “conservatism” instead of throwing tantrums like Madd ellen Murry O’hare or Michael Newdow on the social threads fighting tooth and nail to rid society of religion? (rhetorical)

You go ahead and vote theocon. I'll continue to vote conservative.

[TCH]

Your so-called rebuttal against the Catholic Church, Inquisition, et al, did nothing to discredit the central point that Galileo Galilei believed in God. His FAITH is the gestalt of this argument. You think your intellect superior over we dwarfs holding to religious “superstition”... and yet, I show you men of renowned intellect AND ACCOMPLISHMENT, men who demonstrated their belief in the Divine, their unshakable faith in the active hand of the omni-present, omni-prescient, omni-potent Godhead.

Sir, you cannot obliterate belief, faith, or conviction from men of good will. Only against those minds not yet formed, or against those whom have voluntarily surrendered their free will to evil inclinations, are you so able to attack and pervert to darkness. This explains why individuals of your ilk relentlessly target the most innocent… our children.

Sir, you hate God, and you despise men, whom He created in His image. While yet pretending to enlighten men’s minds, you seduce them into indifference and moral relativism.

Sir, you in fact desire to replace God’s salving grace with your own brand, which is neither saving nor grace. Your ilk has condemned men to slavery every since the Fall of Man in the Garden of Eden. Your words are no different than those clever lies of the wily serpent the devil; he who was Lucifer the Angle of Light, but is now Satan the prince of darkness. He, thinking his intellect superior to God’s, and believing in his own existence outside of God, rebelled against God his creator for reason of pride in created attributes: beauty and intelligence… the very gift of superior intellect given him by God, he abused; the very same gift present day atheists claim for themselves apart from God. Those who abuse the gift of intellect are reserved to the deepest depths of Hell, because that gift is close to God. Therefore the anticedent serves as a just punishment: They will be condemned to spend eternity closest to their chosen leader. Take heed, friend. You risk eternity.

[GoLightly]

As someone who seems to like collecting myths, I think that it's time you pierced one that you seem to hold near & dear. European history isn't as simplistic as you seem to believe it is. Much of the “dark” of the Dark Age had to do with Pagan & Arian tribalism.

The “Golden Age” of Islam had a lot to do with conquest & claiming advancements of all cultures they had conquered as Arabian.

[Coyoteman]

Nice rant!

You can preach all you want, but I still prefer the results of The Enlightenment to those of the Inquisition.

[DirtyHarryY2K]

This has nothing to do with votes.. but rather your blind unrelenting obsession with grinding your atheist secular political axe on these threads.

[DirtyHarryY2K]

Ping to bitter clinger w/ sharp logical humorous wit.
You may be interested in this debate.

[valkyry1]

Apparently you can be an out & out atheist secular liberal as long as you mention science regularly.

[dfwgator]

Funny how atheists get so worked up over something they don’t even believe in.

[Ken H]

All of Western civilization owes its birth, its liberty, its jurisprudence, and its prosperity and longevity to the Catholic Church, and the Christian moral code, without which no semblance of the above attributes would have risen from the rubble that was the old Roman Empire.

Wasn't Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire from 325 AD on? James Madison on the legal establishment of Christianity:

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

James Madison, Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments, 20 June 1785

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendI_religions43.html

[Gumlegs]

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

James Madison, Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments, 20 June 1785

That will get James Madison thrown out of FR for sure.

[freemike]

I don’t believe in atheists. So why should I be forced to listen to him.

[DirtyHarryY2K]

University Chicago..
Is that you Bill(ayers)?

[Ken H]

I'm sure you're a very intelligent person. So why post like an idiot?

[Kathy Ann]

There is more in this thread than I have time to attend to but...

I have 4 nephews who have been deployed 7 times to Iraq. One who is now a contractor in Afghanistan. The last just came home from Iraq, and I hope that to be the last I have to be concerned for.

I brought that up to say I have been told by this last young man that there is an unwritten code amongst them that includes no discussion regarding family, religion or politics. He stated they have to trust each other to watch each others backs. And all there are soldiers first. So this holding back of personal views allows unity.

On another point brought up..

I know some atheists who are obnoxious in the same way recovered smokers are. I assume it to be having to fight to claim the new ground and difficulty in letting it go once arrived.

And being one of those that believe ‘once saved always saved’ I have mentioned they were ‘pissing in wind’ since they were already a child of God’s. Usually cause I was annoyed and decided to play back what they were dishing.

On last point I have time for...

I believe we will face times not seen by most here, and I speak to those on US soil specially in that, and we need to familiarize ourselves with what we cannot do on our own. And what can I say...I believe it is God not me that will make it bearable.

...for now.

[M Kehoe]

"When they say ‘there are no atheists in foxholes’ it’s slanderous," said Wayne Adkins, a former Army first lieutenant who served in Iraq in 2004 and 2005,,,

With all my time in the Army, I had never met one. So, with that said, I will stop mentioning this saying, don't want to slander anyone.

What is odd is the "former O-2." Never met a "former 1st Louie," before. Must have been wounded and discharged.

Thank you for your service Mr. Adkins.

5.56mm

[aWolverine]

One of the problems with the militant atheist types is that they equate overhearing something with being assaulted with it.

This is an outstanding point. There is no right of freedom from being exposed to another's thoughts, explicit or implicit, that is philosophically valid. There are issues of aesthetics, ethics, and empathy which come in to play when one decides whether or not to share one's thoughts with another, but there is no moral or philosophical ground to stand on in making the decision to shut someone else up. You may choose your reaction to another, you may NOT choose whether another expresses their honest thoughts. I am not going to bring law into the discussion, because my perception of the is that it is inconsistent and capricious.

In summary, if you are an athiest and are offended by someone else expressing their thoughts regarding theology, excuse yourself and go have a cigarette. Do NOT file a lawsuit.

[aWolverine]

I’d be happy to hear prayers from anyone, regardless of sect or religion (leaving Islam aside again, sorry I’m sort of negative about them now).

Don't feel bad. Islam is not a religion. It is a political system that uses some theological terms and concepts in order to wield psychological power. It doesn't even begin to be internally consistent enough to be a religion, let alone a metaphysical system for explaining observable phenomena.

[little jeremiah]

I have or used to have two translations of the Koran and tried to read some - not for inspiration, but information - and it was so extremely boring I could not get very far, maybe 100 plus pages.

But the far worse thing is their history - bloody aggression and forcible conversion from the very beginning to this morning. Basically all Muslims are descendents of those forced into Islam. All descendents other than the handful who voluntarily listened to and followed Mohammed were previously Christians, Jews, Hindus, animists, Buddhists, Jains and probably a few more subsets. And since once born a Muslim by Sharia law a person cannot leave, it’s more like a prison than anything else.

Of course, there are recent converts in prisons.