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Germany says it has proof Demjanjuk killed Jews at Sobibor death camp (Nazi Hunters Bag Another One)
Cleveland.com ^

Posted on 11/13/2008 7:54:02 AM PST by mnehring

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To: 1L

The first trial he was convicted on was based on eye-witness evidence, and overturned because of one mystery eye-witness that came up after the fact out of nowhere. The new evidence is period documentation. That is pretty damning and hard to fight..


21 posted on 11/13/2008 8:06:57 AM PST by mnehring
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: dead

I guess that’s where the problem is....he’s a very old man, who had never answered for his crimes when his life actually meant something to him. Now...executing him doesn’t gain anything as far as punishment goes he’s already got one foot on a banana peel and the other in a grave.


23 posted on 11/13/2008 8:09:24 AM PST by Ouderkirk (Those who live by the sword risk being shot by those who donÂ’t.)
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To: mnehrling

What do you mean by period documentation? It all still comes down to an eyewitness seeing him there and after 60 (or even 40) years, that’s going to be tough.


24 posted on 11/13/2008 8:09:35 AM PST by 1L
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To: mnehrling

Germany does not have a death penalty.


25 posted on 11/13/2008 8:10:09 AM PST by edcoil (Looking for a new tagline - do you have one I can use?)
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To: mnehrling

As I recall, a ID card came to light showing that he was never at the Camp where “Ivan” engaged in those atrocities.


26 posted on 11/13/2008 8:10:55 AM PST by padre35 (Sarah Palin is the one we've been waiting for..Rom 10.10..)
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To: padre35

Read a book about this a few years ago. I believe Demjanuk was not the “Ivan the Terrible” he was accused of being, but there is ample evidence that he was a guard at another camp (Sobibor). So what’s he going to say, I wasn’t this infamous guard that was responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands, because I was really a guard at another camp where merely thousands were killed.


27 posted on 11/13/2008 8:12:06 AM PST by IndyTiger
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To: edcoil

Israel does, that is where he was first convicted.


28 posted on 11/13/2008 8:14:01 AM PST by mnehring
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To: mnehrling
That article was more comprehensive than this one, but still didn't answer the main question about identity.

The period documentation clearly proves that Ivan the Terrible was a mass murderer, but it doesn't prove that this guy is Ivan the Terrible.

Israel concluded he wasn't. I just wonder what the new information is that says otherwise.

29 posted on 11/13/2008 8:14:23 AM PST by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: 1L

That’s what other articles on this say, there are transport lists that tie him with the charges. The Nazis where very OCD with documentation- it has been the convicting evidence in many cases.


30 posted on 11/13/2008 8:15:07 AM PST by mnehring
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To: MeanWestTexan

I hope Pat doesn’t get tear stains all over his copy of Mein Kampf.


31 posted on 11/13/2008 8:15:09 AM PST by reagan_fanatic (Obama, you are NOT my President!)
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To: IndyTiger

That is what I understood to have happened, “but” even the evidence of working at the “other” camp was shoddy at best, and with the KGB forging the original ID documents, it would be difficult to place credibility on some “new” “new” evidence.

If the KGB forged stuff, why wouldn’t the East Germans forge things as well?


32 posted on 11/13/2008 8:18:39 AM PST by padre35 (Sarah Palin is the one we've been waiting for..Rom 10.10..)
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To: mnehrling

Can’t they even decide which camp he was at?


33 posted on 11/13/2008 8:19:21 AM PST by chesley (I'm still alive, still employed, & still married. Life is GOOD)
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To: dead

..actually, Israel convicted him..but after ten years of fighting the conviction, they said there spoliation of evidence and then the mystery eye-witness came forward who claimed he remembers seeing some ID with the name Marchenko instead of Demjanjuk. What the supreme court didn’t hear at the time was that Demjanjuk’s mother’s name was Marchenko and he even used that name on his US entry visa.

The Israeli supreme court didn’t find him not guilty, they overturned the ruling and made a statement “The matter is closed-but not complete, the complete truth is not the prerogative of the human judge.” They left open the legal door to keep going and not clear Demjanjuk.


34 posted on 11/13/2008 8:20:57 AM PST by mnehring
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To: IndyTiger
So what’s he going to say, I wasn’t this infamous guard that was responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands, because I was really a guard at another camp where merely thousands were killed.

One of the Israeli prosecutors had this same thought after his original conviction and death sentence were overturned. As he put it, "OK, so he's Ivan the Not Quite So Terrible."

35 posted on 11/13/2008 8:22:31 AM PST by blau993 (Fight Gerbil Swarming)
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To: padre35

The so called evidence that caused his first conviction to be overturned was a mystery witness who claimed they saw the name Marchenko instead of Demjanjuk on a piece of ID. The Israeli Supreme Court didn’t hear when they reviewed the case that Demjanjuk had used the name Marchenko on his US entry visa way back in the 50s and Marchenko was his mother’s name, so there was even a connection to that name, but the connection doesn’t clear him.


36 posted on 11/13/2008 8:23:20 AM PST by mnehring
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To: chesley

Not sure what you mean, he was at both Sobibor and Treblinka.


37 posted on 11/13/2008 8:24:27 AM PST by mnehring
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To: mnehrling

Ridiculous. He’s, what? 90 years old.

Time to move on.


38 posted on 11/13/2008 8:26:50 AM PST by Elpasser
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To: mnehrling

And that “mystery” witness was so convincing that no less then 5 eyewitnesses were disregarded, that is no small thing.

I can recall some of those witnesses testifying in the original trial, they were convinced..and apparently, they were dead wrong.

That is one of the perils of eyewitness testimony that is 60 years old, if the guy is guilty he should face Justice, but if innocent, what then?


39 posted on 11/13/2008 8:27:10 AM PST by padre35 (Sarah Palin is the one we've been waiting for..Rom 10.10..)
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To: mnehrling
OK, he appears unable to prove his innocence, but is that the challenge?

These are very serious crimes for which the person responsible should die, but I would hope that the state (whichever state that happens to be) establishes concrete proof, beyond doubt, that this is the guy who did these things.

"Probably" isn't enough.

40 posted on 11/13/2008 8:28:22 AM PST by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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