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Reloading: Fear fuels nationwide weapons buying spree
The Missoula Independent ^ | November 13, 2008 | George Ochenski

Posted on 11/13/2008 12:20:22 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

The votes were barely counted and Barack Obama’s supporters were still dancing in the streets, buoyed by hope for a better tomorrow, when the news reports began to hit the wires. Obama’s victory brought a huge sigh of relief to those weary of the direction in which the country has been led for the last eight years. But on the other side of that coin, intense anger, fear and paranoia has sparked a flood of people nationwide to buy assault weapons and large amounts of ammunition.

Reports on the numbers of people buying guns and ammo over the last year has filtered out in blogs and tiny newspaper articles for some time. But as the election grew near, and especially after the outcome became known, a tidal wave of frantic buying has captured mainstream, front-page news from coast to coast and border to border, including a prominent Sunday spread in Missoula’s daily.

The most interesting thing is that the weapons and ammo most in demand are not the kind of rifles and bullets normally used for hunting, but the so-called “black guns” that are primarily for military and personal protection. These include, but are not limited to, the AK-47, undoubtedly the most widely used assault rifle in the world, and U.S. military counterparts such as the M-16 and AR15.

These guns all have one thing in common besides their military roots—they were outlawed for sale under the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban passed by Congress and signed into law by President Bill Clinton. The law banned all assault rifle semi-automatics with folding stocks, high-capacity clips, threaded barrels, pistol grips and grenade launcher attachments as well as certain types of pistols and shotguns.

The Assault Weapons Ban expired exactly 10 years later, on September 13, 2004, and neither President Bush nor Congress has attempted to re-instate it. More than a few political observers claim the ban was in large part responsible for the Democrats losing control of Congress for the ensuing decade.

But now, there’s fear sweeping the nation that the new and larger Democratic majorities in both the House and Senate will pass a new weapons ban and that President-elect Obama will sign it into law. If you don’t believe it, just go to a local sporting goods store that carries assault-style rifles and take a look around. Last week, following the election, the lines were three deep in front of every salesperson in my neighborhood gun shops. And late last week a front-page article in the Helena Independent Record interviewed the owner of a local sporting goods and gun shop who said he had just ordered 120,000 rounds of ammo, half of which was already pre-sold.

Or stop into the next gun show in your area. The gun show in Helena last weekend, for instance, set new attendance records and sold out of AK-47 ammo well before it ran out of customers. When I talked with one vendor about what was going on, he told me that the New York Times had called his Missoula shop last week and the reporter tried to get him to admit that it was just the National Rifle Association (NRA) spreading fear and driving the citizenry into purchasing assault rifles while they still could. Besides the gun ban, he added that there was great concern that Congress and Obama would approve a ban on any ammunition that could penetrate law enforcement body armor, which he said would include virtually all high-powered rifles. When I asked how the federal government would deal with those who reloaded their own bullets, he said that those kinds of questions remained unanswered at this time. The result is that the fear and apprehension continue to rise as the intentions of the new Congress and president remain uncertain.

While it would be one thing to say that right-wingers are up in arms (so to speak) over a potential future weapons ban, it would be incorrect to limit concerns only to them. There is considerable evidence that many from the progressive side of the political aisle are equally concerned—but for a different reason.

In their case, they fear that President Obama is literally walking around with a target on his chest. Given the assassinations of President Kennedy, his brother Robert Kennedy, and Martin Luther King, Jr.—as well as the attempted assassination of President Ronald Reagan—those fears are not unfounded. Pundits may proclaim that Obama’s victory has shown the nation is leaving racism behind, but it would be naïve to think that an almost evenly divided populace would somehow be purged of violent racists through the mere outcome of an election.

The supposition is that if President Obama is assassinated, the nation would be thrown into a violent and uncontrollable cataclysm that would pit citizens against each other in a way we haven’t seen since the race riots of the ’60s ravaged Watts, Detroit, Philadelphia and Washington, D.C., leaving hundreds of dead and injured in their wake and millions of dollars in damages. Given the extreme polarization of the populace during the Bush administration, such fears are certainly within the realm of possibility.

Finally, the vast uncertainty over the nation’s economic future must be factored into the equation. It’s well known that, in times of economic downturn, people buy guns and ammo. We here in Montana like to believe it’s for hunting, so we can put meat in our freezers. But you don’t buy AK-47s for hunting in our mega-cities, where big game is non-existent. The only things to shoot there are fellow human beings—in this case, those who would theoretically threaten to harm or loot individuals or families.

No one knows what the future holds, but we do know what’s happening right now. All we can do is hope for cool heads—and cooler trigger fingers—in the coming months, and for the health and safety of our president-elect.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Politics/Elections; US: Montana
KEYWORDS: 111th; 2ndamendment; banglist; bho2008; congress; election; guns; obama; obamatransitionfile; presidentelectobama; rtkba; secondamendment
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To: B4Ranch

They all were recorded as retail sale at some point. At the point any subsequent sales went off the books, the BATFE just resorts to some form of “rubber hose cryptography”.


81 posted on 11/13/2008 10:38:42 AM PST by ctdonath2 (I AM JOE THE PLUMBER!)
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To: MrB

Most cheap stuff is imported. On that note, expect an early executive order to ban importation of ammo.

The good/expensive stuff is domestic. On the prior note, expect domestic ammo to get really really expensive from supply and demand alone.


82 posted on 11/13/2008 10:41:06 AM PST by ctdonath2 (I AM JOE THE PLUMBER!)
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To: ctdonath2

I don’t think you’ll ever be expected to know who owned any weapons you may lay claim to before the person you bought them from. I don’t think any state says you are even required to maintain a list of the person you bought them from. Isn’t that how the the BATFE justifies their value to America?

You could always lead a simple gun free life, such as my own.


83 posted on 11/13/2008 11:02:57 AM PST by B4Ranch (("In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way." FDR)
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To: ctdonath2

>They all were recorded as retail sale at some point.<

Another thought. I am not quite sure that my original Stevens .22 had a serial number on it. 1955 or ‘56.


84 posted on 11/13/2008 11:05:38 AM PST by B4Ranch (("In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way." FDR)
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To: I see my hands
"Would it be practical for a novice to own a weapon capable of killing at distances beyond 900-1000 feet? "

Absolutely! The United States Marine Corps trains about 200 novices a week to shoot acurately at a distance of 1,500 feet.

We have a reputation of killing people from ranges much farther than that. Would you like to be one of us? We hare always looking for a few good men.

Semper Fi
An Old Man

85 posted on 11/13/2008 11:39:01 AM PST by An Old Man (Lead, Follow, or get the hell out of the way)
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To: B4Ranch

Turn that thought process around. The goal is not to find out “who’s gun is this?”, it is to determine “who has guns?” Stroke of a pen, law of the land, BATFE goes to each manufacturer and says “turn over your transfer records or we shut you down and take those records”, and starts following the paper trail from there. Should they reach “dunno, sold it to some guy in a private sale”, they will NOT just go “oh, ok, guess that lead is closed”, they’ll move to some variation of “rubber hose cryptography”. ...oh, and if someone says “boating accident”, every cubic foot of their residence will be turned over to a depth of 10 feet.


86 posted on 11/13/2008 11:47:02 AM PST by ctdonath2 (I AM JOE THE PLUMBER!)
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To: I see my hands
"Would it be practical for a novice to own a weapon capable of killing at distances beyond 900-1000 feet? "

Absolutely! The United States Marine Corps trains about 200 novices a week to shoot acurately at a distance of 1,500 feet.

We have a reputation of killing people from ranges much farther than that. Would you like to be one of us? We hare always looking for a few good men.

Semper Fi
An Old Man

87 posted on 11/13/2008 11:53:32 AM PST by An Old Man (Lead, Follow, or get the hell out of the way)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

George Ochenski is a turd!


88 posted on 11/13/2008 12:24:08 PM PST by ChowChowFace
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The law banned all assault rifle semi-automatics with folding stocks, high-capacity clips, threaded barrels, pistol grips and grenade launcher attachments as well as certain types of pistols and shotguns.

MSM just reads their own pap and spits it back out. I'm so tired of this untruth.

89 posted on 11/13/2008 12:29:39 PM PST by gundog (We shall overcome.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I don’t know ‘bout y’all, but I’s jes’ gittin’ ready fer the OJ sentencin’.


90 posted on 11/13/2008 12:32:29 PM PST by gundog (We shall overcome.)
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To: CPOSharky
Does anyone here reload their own "bullets"?

Been thinkin' about it. Speer got started by shoving lead into spent .22 LR casings. Makes a nice .223 bullet when it's swaged.

91 posted on 11/13/2008 12:34:41 PM PST by gundog (We shall overcome.)
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To: tacticalogic
Maybe time to take a page from Acorn and start looking for ways to make the books indecipherable.

Excellent point!
92 posted on 11/13/2008 12:41:47 PM PST by ChowChowFace
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To: Chinstrap61a
Totally agree.

The condescending tone of the author really pissed me off. That, and the term "assault" weapon again.
93 posted on 11/13/2008 1:30:46 PM PST by randomhero97 ("First you want to kill me, now you want to kiss me. Blow!" - Ash)
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To: Dahoser

I have been spreading the word about Obamas security force, it is obvious when it is someone that voted for him, they brush it off and say they are sure he won’t do that. It amazes me that many who voted for him don’t believe he will do the things he promised to do.

One thing I have found effective when spreading the word about his proposed security force- I point out all the different LEO agencies we already have in this country and say I can’t imagine why we would possibly need more law enforcement. That usually gets their attention- as I find many of the Obama supporters are not exactly fans of LEO. I love to see the looks on their face when I put it to them that way.


94 posted on 11/13/2008 1:43:52 PM PST by Tammy8 (Please Support and pray for our Troops, as they serve us every day.)
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To: ctdonath2
...to reach something at 1000 meters. A .308 ...

Various gun boards say to use 175 grain Sierra MatchKing bullets to have any degree of accuracy at that range in .308. The 168s fall off around 600-700 due to velocity dropping below the speed of sound, which introduces turbulence that throws off accuracy. So say the gun boards, I've never shot at anywhere close to those distances.

95 posted on 11/13/2008 3:42:40 PM PST by Ancesthntr (An ex-citizen of the Frederation dedicated to stopping the Obamination from becoming President)
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To: ctdonath2

Before they get anywhere close to upending more than a few homes, word will get out. Hell, some patriot employed by the fed.gov may even spill the beans before the first raids begin.

At either point, the searches will have certain, uh, costs - yeah, that’s the ticket, COSTS - attached to them. Some of those costs may need to be paid directly by higher level management (you know, the peons never have the authority to pay for stuff, they just do as they’re told).

Hey, here’s a great scene from movie about a somewhat similar set of circumstances: http://moviesonline.ca/TheFeed/index.php?id=300-laydownyourweapons


96 posted on 11/13/2008 3:50:18 PM PST by Ancesthntr (An ex-citizen of the Frederation dedicated to stopping the Obamination from becoming President)
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To: ctdonath2

>every cubic foot of their residence will be turned over to a depth of 10 feet.<

Anyone foolish enough to deep cache on their own property deserves the burns that will come from it.


97 posted on 11/13/2008 3:52:46 PM PST by B4Ranch (("In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way." FDR)
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To: Tammy8

Ask the supporters of The One why it is that virtually every single police department in the country has full autos, plus many (up to thousands, in the larger forces) of the same semi-autos that they seek to ban from ownership by average citizens. After all, such weapons have as their only purpose the “killing of large numbers of people.” Who are those all for, pray tell?

Yeah, so we REALLY need a force of 250,000 or 500,000 brainwashed youts with full autos, doing the bidding of Der F..., uh, The One. Sure. What’s THAT for? To sweep away any resistance from local PDs? To simply burn out, intimidate, kill, etc. any citizens with firearms that they don’t wish to turn in? What’s it for, what’s its purpose? Does Obama expect the Russians and Chinese to invade without the armed forces noticing, so that we need a large force to re-enact Red Dawn?

You know, it is easy for anyone to say that you, I or most of the people on this thread are habitual wearer of aluminum foil beanies. Very easy. After all, nothing like that has ever happened. Not here, anyway. But it HAS happened elsewhere. Yeah, using Nazi Germany as an example isn’t likely to win anyone any debating points (there’s that unwritten rule that the first person to mention the words “Nazi” or “Hitler” loses the argument), but the fact is that those events occurred, power was seized by force from a scared or otherwise compliant population that was largely unarmed (and if they were, the local police knew exactly what was owned and by whom). Simply put, the various measures proposed by The One are, in their totality, quite worrisome. Combined with his background of hanging around uber-lefties and outright revolutionaries, it causes hairs to stand on end, and threads like this one to proliferate.


98 posted on 11/13/2008 4:05:58 PM PST by Ancesthntr (An ex-citizen of the Frederation dedicated to stopping the Obamination from becoming President)
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To: B4Ranch
Anyone foolish enough to deep cache on their own property deserves the burns that will come from it.

That'd be quite true. There are any number of places on the Internet where the subject is discussed. I believe that there's a thread on FR entitled, "The Art of the Cache" that is very educational (article and FR posts both).

On a separate note, a large collection effort would require informants. People that dislike a gun owner. Heaven forbid if some of them were careless and left their empty shell casings or, EGADS!, live ammo from military caliber rifles on their property. Why, then they themselves could be informed upon and dragged away like the rest of the eeeeviiiiiil gun owners. That'd be TERRIBLE wouldn't it?

99 posted on 11/13/2008 4:11:32 PM PST by Ancesthntr (An ex-citizen of the Frederation dedicated to stopping the Obamination from becoming President)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The supposition is that if President Obama is assassinated, the nation would be thrown into a violent and uncontrollable cataclysm

Yeah, just imagine the confusion about what to put on his head stone...
100 posted on 11/13/2008 4:13:45 PM PST by aWolverine
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