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Demand for gold, silver coins exceeds supply
scrippsnews.com ^ | 10-14-2008 | Tim Grant

Posted on 10/16/2008 1:03:38 PM PDT by ovrtaxt

While precious metal prices have fallen from the record high levels set earlier this year, most, if not all dealers, are experiencing shortages, and retail buyers are finding it harder to obtain gold and silver coins.

The U.S. Mint, which never ran out of supply before, has sold out of its 1-ounce gold and silver coins, and the refining company that mints the South African Kruggerand gold coin announced it also had run out of supply.

"Gold and silver bullion is not coming in at a pace we need to satisfy customer demand," said Eddie Lowy, owner of Banner Coin Exchange in Pittsburgh.

Even though he has raised his offering prices to the public for gold and silver coins above the spot price in recent months and cut his profit, Lowy said, "I'm still seeing very little bullion products being offered for sale."

Gold and silver are known as crisis commodities that tend to appreciate in value under the worse economic conditions. But at a time when many investors are unsure about the government bailout plan and more concerned about the financial system, the price of precious metals has dropped while demand appears to be rising.

The spot price for gold, which traded above $1,000 an ounce in March, has fallen to around $800. Silver, which reached about $21 an ounce earlier this year, now trades for about $10 on the futures market and through exchange-traded funds.

But there is a substantial disconnect between the paper and physical market for precious metals. Buyers who are able to find silver coins will pay more than $20 an ounce to obtain them and around $1,000 an ounce for gold.

"The paper market will eventually catch up with the physical market, or it will destroy itself," said David Morgan, a silver expert and founder of silver-investor.com in Spokane, Wash.

Morgan said buyers already have started taking delivery of precious metals from the futures market at the lower price in order to resell it on the physical market at a substantially higher price.

Much of the recent decline in the paper value of gold, silver, platinum and palladium can be traced to the collapse of investment banks and hedge funds on Wall Street, said Peter Schiff, president of Euro Pacific Capital in Darien, Conn., and author of "The Little Book of Bull Moves in Bear Markets."

He said many of the Wall Street firms devastated by the credit crunch were forced to sell their precious metals assets to shore up their balance sheets or meet leverage calls. The avalanche of sales in the paper market for precious metals triggered a drop in price.

"Ultimately, people who are buying gold now are doing the right thing," Schiff said. "The dollar is at risk and a lot of inflation is being created. Gold will retain its value even if they bought it at $950 or $1,000. The drop is only temporary."

Investors who bet on precious metals even at their peak prices are still better off than many who banked on real estate or the stock market at their highest points, said James Turk, founder of GoldMoney.com, based in the British Channel Islands, and author of "The Collapse of the Dollar."

"The paper market has driven the price of gold and silver down to a level that is not sustainable, and you'll see a snap back," Turk said. "I remain bullish."

Some of the largest wholesalers in the world are out of gold and silver bullion.

A representative at Monex, a gold dealer in Newport Beach, Calif., said the company was out of three-quarters of the bullion products they normally carry. Kitco Bullion Dealers in Canada recently posted a notice on the company's Web site apologizing for its inability to fulfill all existing client orders.

"It feels like the eye of the hurricane," said Blaine Shiff, co-owner of Cybercoins.net in Dormont, Pa. "Something is up. But I don't know what."

In volatile times such as these in which there is a credit crisis and growing doubt about the stability of the financial system, gold is unique in that it has no counterparty risks. It is a tangible asset that is not dependent on someone else's promise.

While it's uncertain how much the federal bailout plan will do to help calm the financial markets, Addison Wiggin, executive producer of the movie "I.O.U.S.A." and founder of Agora Financial in Baltimore, is convinced that it will lead to higher inflation and higher prices for precious metals, which are a hedge against inflation.

The bailout tab so far, he says, will add about $1.8 trillion in government debt along with massive amounts of lost equity for stock market investors.

"A huge amount of institutional money is in three-month Treasury bills on the sidelines," Wiggin said. "My guess is things will start shaking loose after the election. As these three-month T-bills mature, they will either roll back into Treasuries or into precious metals."

E-mail Tim Grant at tgrant(at)post-gazette.com.

(Distributed by Scripps Howard News Service, www.scrippsnews.com.)



TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: comex; gold; schiff; silver
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To: kaspergutman

That’s exactly my financial plan right now! :p


41 posted on 10/16/2008 2:19:49 PM PDT by ovrtaxt ( One useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a Congress. --John Adams)
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To: austinaero

Those silver coins of yours have also retained their purchasing power over time. Look back to 1964, which was the last year coins in the U.S. were minted at 90% silver. A gallon of gas could be bought for $0.25 in silver. Today a gallon of gas can still be bought for that 1964 silver quarter.


42 posted on 10/16/2008 2:21:09 PM PDT by Duke Phelan
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To: Duke Phelan

From my past orders, it appears they haven’t gone up. But they always sell high.


43 posted on 10/16/2008 2:23:46 PM PDT by rustyncrusty (Where liberty dwells, there is my country. - Ben Franklin)
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To: Beelzebubba
Gold preserves the value of your wealth over time

Not nearly as well as stocks and bonds, over time.

TIPS hedge inflation and pay interest, too.

44 posted on 10/16/2008 2:29:53 PM PDT by kaspergutman
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To: CaliforniaCon

“. I took a little cash out recently and bank teller had to get permission from two superiors to give me the funds. They did NOT want to let go of it; tried to talk me out of it and believe me, it wasn’t very much money.”
~~~
I’ve seen this very same story posted all over these threads

for weeks,,,

It took some a few days to get “Their” money away from the

Bank!...


45 posted on 10/16/2008 2:37:09 PM PDT by 1COUNTER-MORTER-68 (THROWING ANOTHER BULLET-RIDDLED TV IN THE PILE OUT BACK~~~~~)
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To: kaspergutman

A friend was telling me he sold all his gold (probably paper positions) and got into TIPS. Looks pretty strong right now.


46 posted on 10/16/2008 2:37:32 PM PDT by ovrtaxt ( One useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a Congress. --John Adams)
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To: ovrtaxt
The properties of the metals themselves are what make them valuable. Paper is still paper in the end, when it doesn’t represent anything other than goodwill on the part of a bank.

What's your take on investing in less hyped metals like platinum and palladium?

47 posted on 10/16/2008 2:47:06 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

They are viewed more an industrial commodity than a monetary vehicle. Platinum is way down because cars need catalytic converters, and there aren’t many cars rolling out right now. Not sure about palladium.


48 posted on 10/16/2008 2:49:49 PM PDT by ovrtaxt ( One useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a Congress. --John Adams)
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To: austinaero
if [silver] is sold, it is for cash, which is not pegged to any commodity and can become worthless overnight.

Silver became nearly worthless overnight when the Hunt brother's scheme to corner the silver market collapsed; silver going from $50 an ounce down to $11 and then even lower. Same pricing collapse occurred with gold in the '80s.

Investors in precious metals are exposed to the same market risks as investors in other financial assets, and gold doesn't pay a dividend. This is data mining, but:

In March 2008, the gold price increased above $1000, which in real terms is still well below the $850/oz. peak on January 21, 1980. Indexed for inflation, the 1980 high would equate to a price of around $2400 in 2007 US dollars.

Sometimes gold doesn't even protect against inflation.

49 posted on 10/16/2008 3:00:34 PM PDT by kaspergutman
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To: ovrtaxt
They are viewed more an industrial commodity than a monetary vehicle.

That's true, but I'd think they would still retain their intrinsic value because of their physical properties and relative rarity. Since they aren't viewed as a traditional monetary vehicle, the prices would be less volatile, and the metal itself less likely to be subject to confiscation if the government decides to re-visit some of FDR's policies.

50 posted on 10/16/2008 3:02:09 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

There are certainly advantages.

Personally, I like silver because an ounce is so liquid for common transactions at a lower value.


51 posted on 10/16/2008 3:08:14 PM PDT by ovrtaxt ( One useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a Congress. --John Adams)
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To: ovrtaxt
That’s exactly my financial plan right now! :p

You might be interested in this Boglehead's thread on Harry Browne, who advocated a defensive 4x25 "permanent portfolio" of stocks, LT treasuries, cash and gold.

52 posted on 10/16/2008 3:09:14 PM PDT by kaspergutman
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To: ovrtaxt

I’ve got a few pounds of pre-64 silver coins stashed away, but that doesn’t seem like it would be a good way to buy silver. Any suggestions for a good source? I could probably handle some small scale refining of industrial scrap if it was worth the effort.


53 posted on 10/16/2008 3:14:58 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic

try nwtmint.com. Actually, the pre-64 coins are the most common ‘starter’ investment for silver. They are extremely liquid, since they’re recognizable US currency. I’d keep those, along with some ammo. lol


54 posted on 10/16/2008 3:26:14 PM PDT by ovrtaxt ( One useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a Congress. --John Adams)
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To: ovrtaxt
I’d keep those, along with some ammo. lol

If you've got dimes, you can put 'em in a 12 ga. for hunting vampires and werewolves, and have both at once!

55 posted on 10/16/2008 3:30:26 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: ovrtaxt
64 to 69 coins are 40% silver

1965-69 half dollars are 40% silver. The rest are just cupro-nickel.

56 posted on 10/16/2008 3:44:30 PM PDT by DeaconBenjamin
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To: tacticalogic
What's your take on investing in less hyped metals like platinum and palladium?

If platinum is depressed because of the lack of automobiles being produced, then that might be a good choice, though it might always go down further. Platinum is perceived as being more precious than gold, and its present value isn't much above that of gold, so it might not be a bad choice. Note that platinum is especially counterfeit-resistant since the only denser metals are even more expensive. A bar of gold-coated tungsten would be almost as dense as a bar of gold, but noticeably less dense than a bar of platinum. If a rectangular bar of material weighs as much as platinum, that's a pretty good sign that it is platinum.

The semi-precious metal that I find boggling is rhodium. The price chart screams bubble, but it's still at many times the pre-bubble price.

57 posted on 10/16/2008 3:56:29 PM PDT by supercat
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To: ovrtaxt
Personally, I like silver because an ounce is so liquid for common transactions at a lower value.

How would one readily protect oneself against silver counterfeiters? Gold may be reasonably judged on the basic of chemical inertness or density, though one would still have to test the gold carefully to avoid being stung by a bar of gold-plated tungsten.

Platinum is probably the best counterfeit-proof metal because its density (21.9kg/l) is more than 13% greater than that of gold or tungsten. It's rather pricey, though, and the price may be affected by economic factors.

58 posted on 10/16/2008 4:03:49 PM PDT by supercat
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To: tacticalogic

Sweet, the undead shotty!


59 posted on 10/16/2008 4:27:41 PM PDT by ovrtaxt ( One useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a Congress. --John Adams)
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To: supercat

http://www.fisch.co.za/home.htm

These people make an instrument for that purpose. I don’t know anything about it.


60 posted on 10/16/2008 4:48:01 PM PDT by ovrtaxt ( One useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a Congress. --John Adams)
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