Posted on 09/25/2008 5:21:56 PM PDT by SJackson
'There was a story in The Jerusalem Post recently about how Sarah Palin was driving a lot of the old Jews in Florida back into the hands of the Democrats. They still didn't particularly like Barack Obama, but they disliked Palin more, explained Steve Geller, a Jewish Democratic politician down there.
It wasn't just the evangelical thing, he said. "Most of our South Florida condo people are appalled at seeing her standing over a moose."
Finally. Thank God. I'd like to shake the hands of those South Florida condo people for saying what American Jews have been afraid to say ever since the rise of the Right: We don't like hunting. We don't admire hunters. In fact, we think they're a little strange, maybe even a little bit sick - and with some of them, more than a little bit.
What sort of person kills animals for sport? For fun? You see this picture of Sarah Palin kneeling in the snow over this moose she's just shot, and the moose is lying there bleeding from the mouth - and everybody's supposed to applaud. This is women's equality - women can kill moose, too.
By the way, this is not just a Republican thing; Hillary Clinton told the story over and over about how she learned to hunt from her father. In 2004, John Kerry made sure everyone knew he may be a Democrat with a Boston accent, but he was a hunter, damnit.
Obviously, they were going after the redneck vote, showing they weren't prissy urban liberals, they were real, red-blooded Americans. That's what you have to do to get elected president ever since 1980, when Reagan took over, and country became cool.
AND I have to laugh at these Jewish Republicans who are kvelling over Palin and what a regular, down-to-earth gal she is. I'd like to see some of these verbose Jewish neocons tromping around Alaska with a hunting rifle going after caribou, whatever the hell that is.
Why don't they admit that they're put off by Palin's exploits in the snow, and by hunting in principle, just like those Florida condo people are. This is not a Jewish thing, and, as a Jew, I'm happy to say it's not. I know there are a few Jewish hunters out there, and I want to say I feel sorry for you, you and all your gentile friends, that this is how you find joy in life - by killing deer, and moose, and rabbits, and ducks, and birds and whatever other animals you enjoy shooting.
By the way, I don't mean to tar all gentiles as barbarians - I know that millions and millions of gentiles are also sickened by hunting, maybe most of them are. But let's face it, even if most gentiles aren't hunters, virtually all hunters are gentiles.
After all, how many Jews are members of the National Rifle Association? (No, you cannot count Charlton Heston, z"l.)
And I'm not one of those people who want to outlaw hunting. I don't think it's "murder," I don't think animals have the same rights as people. Actually, I'm no great animal lover at all. Actually, if you want to know the truth, I identify with the humorist Fran Lebowitz, who, when asked to name her favorite animal, replied: "Steak."
And I don't hate guns, either; I got a big kick out of target practice in the army. I'm also not a stickler for gun control; I understand that in some places and some situations, a gun is a good thing to have, and I'm not convinced that rounding up guns in America would bring the crime rate down to European levels.
It's just that I don't like the idea of killing animals for pleasure, and I don't think being a hunter is anything to be proud of. I wouldn't do it, and frankly, I don't think I could be friends with somebody who did it, or at least somebody who did it passionately, and it seems to me that all hunters are passionate about hunting. It doesn't strike me as a hobby you can pursue half-heartedly.
The South Florida condo people have a term for it: goyishe naches. Gentiles' idea of happiness. Not all gentiles, of course, but too many of them, including Sarah Palin, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry and, of course, Dick Cheney. (Just think - if the yidden in Florida had known all along that Cheney was such a remarkably eager hunter, Al Gore probably would have won in 2000.)
So let's all of us Jews, or virtually all of us, along with the vast, civilized majority of gentiles, stand up and say: Feh on hunting! You think that makes you a man, or a strong woman? It makes you a nut! You should be ashamed of yourselves! Unless you're starving, leave the poor animals alone!
And now that we've told the rednecks and the politicians who pander to them what we think of that great American pastime, shall we talk about stock car racing?
Hmmm... “LARRY DERFNER” First off, this is the guy who wrote in his JP column (Rattling the Cage) that Israel practices terrorism.
Now that exposing this guy for what he is, I can begin to dissect this column. I would say that it’s quite true that at least in the US, Jews very rarely hunt. I remember my mother and aunts being aghast at the fact that I went hunting with friends while in grade school and high school. At the same time, I remember them telling me stories about how when they were growing up in the 1930s, their parents would buy live chickens at the market, and they would see their parents kill and butcher the chickens on their back porch. I remember seeing my grandfather butcher live fish for making “gefilte fish.” So it’s not like they don’t realize that they’re eating what was formerly a living animal.
I think that the very last line says an awful lot about the mental state of Larry, and many people, Jews and Gentiles, who don’t like hunting... Hunting (in their minds) is, for lack of a better term, “icky.” It’s something that cultured, well off people don’t do. Only poor people have to kill their own food. Once you’ve climbed the social ladder and become “cultured,” you can pay to have other “untouchables” kill your food for you. You’re better than them - again see the very last line about NASCAR, and the snide and insulting way he used the term “rednecks” to describe hunters. Quite frankly, it’s HIS attitude and outlook that’s more than just a bit sick. When you hold yourself up as being better than someone because you disdain something that he or she does, but then take part in the results (i.e. eating meat, wearing leather, etc) all it does is make one a hypocrite.
Now, let me make a few things public here... First off, there’s very little I love more than a big hunk of dead, burnt animal flesh... I’ve decided that before I die, I need to make a pilgrimage to Peter Luger’s Steak House in NYC. But I don’t hunt anymore. It’s not that I have any problems with it, but it’s no longer for me - I got all the “outdoors-y” stuff out of my system in Boy Scouts, and now I consider camping and hunting “icky.” To me, “roughing it” is staying at a Motel 6. I would much rather go to the grocery store to buy a steak than to clean a deer! But I won’t turn down an invite to a duck and goose dinner, or have some venison sausage, chili, or steaks.
It’s his elitist and superior attitude that make Larry, and others like him, an object of derision and even dislike. It’s a cultural thing, and people living in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones... How many Jewish cultural, or even religious pastimes and actions do many non-Jews find to be “icky,” or even sick and barbaric. I know of many non-Jews who are appalled at the “Brit Milah” (”Briss” in Yiddish), or Jewish ritual circumcision. They’re shocked to learn it’s often done at home or the synagogue, and the conversation usually ends with “they do what? And without anesthetic!?!?!?!!” Believe me, the word “barbaric” only begins to touch on their feelings about that one...
And it’s not helpful to Jews to make your greatest supporters in the US feel betrayed and angry. Talk about shooting one’s self in the foot.
Mark
I am a deer and duck hunter and lived on a ranch in my yute. I do have a business that gets rid of birds, and PETA likes me cause it doesn't hurt the birds.
meat is the best protein!
This guy doesnt know Jack about what it takes to survive in Alaska with a whole family.
You’re right, and I say that as someone who knows Jack about what it takes to survive in Alaska but who does know enough not to criticize those that do it.
That would be the definition of a hunter.
We could continue to fill in the blanks...
"Teachers are passionate about teaching."
"Parents are passionate about parenting."
"Cyclists are passionate about cycling."
Geez... is it the logic that is lacking in the article or is it just poor writing?
If a moose has "cloven hooves" and chews it's cud, then it is a kosher animal. However if it's not slaughtered and butchered in a kosher way the meat would not technically be kosher. On the other hand, Jewish law is pragmatic... If you live in a place where you have nothing else to eat other than hunting, or it's a required part of your diet, then it's OK. Sort of "if you do your best, it's OK. As long as you're REALLY doing your best. No cheating.
Mark
While it's probably immoral and unethical to eat a fellow sentient creature unnecessarily (at least providing a market for unnecessary killing/harm), the 'depravity' in hunting/killing/harm I referred to pertains to whatever pleasure some might derive from it. Related to sadism, predation, and maybe sociopathy.
Are you a Vegan?
The one thing about livestock is that they rarely miss a meal and the food they eat, hogs too, is all approved for human consumption. At least in the US and Canada it is. We know different about China, don't we.
Many wild animals starve to death or are killed by other carnivores. If you had the choice of how to die would you prefer a metal rod into the brain that paralyzed your nervous system and destroyed your brain or would you rather have another animal chewing on your throat until it could get a good enough grip to rip your throat out so you would bleed to death. Or the moose and deer who are brought down with their hind leg ripped apart.
The slaughter house method takes less than a second. The freedom of dying out in the wild can last for hours. Take your pick.
The beautiful mountain lion with a large thorn or sliver of rock stuck in its foot dies of starvation. The sleek osprey dies of parasites and worms or a broken wing while a turkeys and chickens are decapitated.
Remember when we use to kill horses here in the US? A quick and almost painless death for 99.999% of them when they hit the slaughterhouse. Now, in Mexico they are killed with a knife and bled to death.
Freedom is wonderful especially for animals but the price they pay when they get sick can last for hours, days or even weeks before they lay down and die.
So, get your hat on straight and stop thinking with your soft heart and stupid emotions. God gave you a brain, use it.
If you notice, he admits that he does eat meat. It's not that he's just making a "virtue" out of his ignorance. He's doing so of his elitism and hypocrisy as well.
I'd love to introduce this idiot to Ted Nugent.
Mark
Larry Barfner’s column is called “Rattling the Cage.” His writing is the verbal equivalent of throwing poop.
Behind the barn.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, my first experience with the booger-eating-moron was his column stating that Israel practices terrorism.
Mark
Causing unnecessary suffering to animals is prohibited by Divine Law to both Jews and non-Jews. However, harvesting animals for food or other products (such as clothing or leather) is certainly permitted, as is population control. Torah scrolls are made of the hide of kosher animals and stitched together with the tendons of kosher animals.
Orthodox Jews do not engage in conventional hunting because they are not permitted to eat meat from an animal slaughtered by any other means than shechitah. However, it is permitted to snare an animal or bird alive, examine it, and if it is not disqualified to slaughter it via shechitah for food. There are numerous references in the Bible to snaring game and fowl. (Fish do not require ritual slaughter at all and may be eaten once removed from the water. Also, sport fishing is permitted.)
Mr. Derfner's remarks are most unfortunate, but it is of utmost importance to recall that the ultimate standard judging the morality of an activity is not whether or not one is accustomed to doing it, but whether it is permitted by Halakhah (cockfighting, dogfighting, bullfighting, and rodeos are certainly forbidden).
To be fair to Mr. Derfner, he has disavowed vegetarianism, animals rights, and gun control. What he is left with, unfortunately, is bigotry against "rednecks." Once again "Clem" has no right to hunt while Chief Rain-In-The-Puss, the Noble Red Man, is apparently entitled to do so because it is part of his "quaint" culture.
Apparently some cultures are more equal than others.
They're delicious.
And some are even kosher!
There are lots of Jewish hunters in Texas. Goes with the territory.
I just can't see where kosher slaughter is always the right thing to do. The stress of rounding up a wild animal, then getting near enough to slit the throat just seems cruel.
I guess my conflict is between doing it the gentler way or following the Law.
I understand why most Jews don't hunt. This conflict seems impossible to overcome.
But if I'm not mistaken, there is no rule against killing an animal in a non-kosher way, only against eating a non-kosher animal. Would it be possible to hunt, then trade the meat for kosher meat? (Just an idea. You're the expert!) :-)
To each his own, I guess — I field dress my deer the other way around. It is nice to have a hoist and a hose though, makes the job much tidier.
Do moose chew their cud?
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