Posted on 09/24/2008 4:27:29 AM PDT by governsleastgovernsbest
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. -- First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America
Because John Mashek is apparently so utterly unfamiliar with it, I'm setting out the text of the First Amendment for his ease of reference. According to his column in U.S. News, the Roman Catholic bishop of Scranton, PA violates the First Amendment by denying Joe Biden communion because of his support for abortion rights.
Writes Mashek [emphasis added]:
Biden, like 14 other Democrats in the Senate, is both pro-choice and Catholic. So the bishop decreed that the party's vice presidential candidate was not welcome at the communion rail. These Senate Democrats and many other Catholics—including this writer—do not necessarily favor abortion, but we do not feel our religious views should be foisted on others in a nation where church and state are divided.
. . .
That division of church and state has application here. No priest, minister, or rabbi should be telling the flock how to vote or for whom. Some do, and they are wrong.
(Excerpt) Read more at newsbusters.org ...
The first Amendment means whatever liberals want it to mean, same as the Second.....as a matter of fact, all of them.
If Biden goes to communion without having properly prepared himself through acts of contrition or confession, humbly asking forgiveness, his communion with Christ is meaningless. This is a very serious matter to Catholics.
...What’s wrong with these people?...How freaking stupid can you get?...
I see the religion clauses of the First Amendment as amplifying the speech and press clauses - we are to have freedom of speech and press even in matters of faith claims which cannot be proven or disproved.And the assembly and petition clause likewise make it clear that freedom of speech and press apply to criticism of the government.
The application to this case is simply that Senator Biden can state his opinion about Catholic doctrine, Bishop John Mashek can state his opinion as it relates to Senator Biden's remarks and exercise his rights as his religious organization stipulates - and Mark Finkelstein is free to be wrong about Bishop John Mashek's rights, in print. As long as no one attempts to enforce that error, it is - in secular terms - all good.
It would only violate the First Amendment if he actually burned him.....
Can he be burned for being Stupid then?
Well, the cat’s finally out of the bag. Liberals like Mashek actually believe that the separation of church and state means that religious people should have no say in public policy. Believers simply aren’t welcome in the public square. Apparently, Catholic bishops aren’t allowed to exercise authority within the Church if that somehow infringes on the “right” of Catholic politicians to support abortion because abortion is something that secularists support.
BTTT
The Bishop of Scranton, PA, whose name escapes me, has observed that Joe Biden, whose relevance escapes me, should not receive Communion. John Mashek is a “Catholic” “journalist” who believes the Bishop does not, under the Constitution, have this authority. Mark Finkelstein is the NewsBusters commentator who is commenting on John Mashek’s comments on the Bishop’s comments.
Just to set the record straight:
John Mashek is the US News columnist who said the bishop violated the First Amendment.
Mark Finkelstein is the NewsBusters columnist who criticized Mashek.
And by the way, Governs = Finkelstein.
Many thanks, T-c, for clarifying things!
Back in the 60’s, after Vatican II, priests were preaching from the pulpit about the union rights, liberal causes and the joys of Communism.
Remember the outcry back then about sparaation of church and state?
Didn’t think so!
It’s a feature of modern communications that the “base story,” as it were, can have accreted several layers of discussion by the time it appears on FR. I think it’s good that we can see several different perspectives on a situation at the same time - sort of collage of commentary - but sometimes one needs a scorecard or a flowchart!
Could you try that again, and make it slightly more confusing? I still understood some of it.
;)
I’m catholic and I understand.
The point of my post is that communion is a privelege.
The Church has the authority to extend that privelege or deny it.
No one can just walk in, demand the privelege, and then whine about separation of Church and state, when they are denied because their public policies violate Church teaching.
The Bishop of Scranton is Bishop Martino, and Joe Biden doesn’t live in Scranton, or even in Pennsylvania. My brother lives near Scranton, but he’s not Catholic.
Did that help? Maybe you’d like a kitten, too?
ya gotta love these cino’s!
Love to tell people how “catholic” they are -then they go and do this to a bishop.
It seems I remember a certain Judge Greer getting his fanny kicked out of his baptist church when the church leaders felt his decisions on the bench violated their respect for human life.
Anyone go after that church for that?
Yes, thank you. Please send Kitty right away. I’m sure he’ll explain everything to my satisfaction. Or at least distract my attention from the issue.
Mashek’s accumulated ignorance of the first amendment could fill entire libraries.
What Mashek is actually referring to is the as-yet-unrecognized right (at least by the Supreme Court, although not by the arbiters of right and good public opinion) to not have your actions criticized by those who take their religion and accompanying moral strictures on behavior seriously.
Those who have presciently been blessed with an understanding of this right are often heard invoking it with such phrases as “who are you to tell me what to do” (usually spoken by teenagers, or adults who never finished charm school) or “you don’t have the right to cram your religious beliefs down my throat” a favorite way of giving vent to what otherwise would be a roiling internal fit of anguish that might damage the delicate psyches of the victims of organized religion.
“I don’t do homework in church, why should you pray in my school” is another expression that is a favorite of those who crave compartmentalization in their otherwise free-form school classrooms.
And of course in 1776 revolution was preached from every pulpit in the country.
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