Posted on 09/17/2008 4:02:34 AM PDT by Doctor13
The West Begins to Doubt Georgian Leader
Five weeks after the war in the Caucasus the mood is shifting against Georgian President Saakashvili. Some Western intelligence reports have undermined Tbilisi's version of events and there are now calls on both sides of the Atlantic for an independent investigation.
But now, five weeks after the end of the war in the Caucasus, the winds have shifted in America. Even Washington is beginning to suspect that Saakashvili, a friend and ally, could in fact be a gambler -- someone who triggered the bloody five-day war and then told the West bold-faced lies. "The concerns about Russia have remained," says Paul Sanders, an expert on Russia and the director of the conservative Nixon Center in Washington. His words reflect the continuing Western assessment that Russia's military act of revenge against the tiny Caucasus nation Georgia was disproportionate, that Moscow violated international law by recognizing the separatist republics of South Ossetia and Abkhazia and, finally, that it used Georgia as a vehicle to showcase its imperial renaissance.
As it appears, it is still difficult to separate truth and lies about the brief war in the Caucasus.
RALF BESTE, UWE KLUSSMANN, CORDULA MEYER, CHRISTIAN NEEF, MATTHIAS SCHEEP, HANS-JÜRGEN SCHLAMP, HOLGER STARK
Translated from the German by Christopher Sultan
(Excerpt) Read more at spiegel.de ...
Five weeks after the war in Poland the mood is shifting against Polish President Ignacy Mościcki. Some Western intelligence reports have undermined Warsaw's version of events and there are now calls on both sides of the Atlantic for an independent investigation.
No, it isn't difficult to separate truth from lies. Of course, we know the statement is merely intended to blur reality, which is the purpose of propaganda.
A communist aggressor invaded a sovereign country in an effort to re-erect the iron curtain.
Although Clinton speaks for only a few minutes, her words show that the mood toward Georgia is shifting in the United States.
No. Senator Clinton speaks for herself and the Left who always take the appeasement path.
Georgia "marched into the South Ossetian capital" after a series of provocations, says Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Daniel Fried.
So what is it? Did the Georgians act irresponsibly, or were they provoked? South Ossetia is not and independent nation. It has been recognized as part of Georgia since the 90s by everyone except the Russians and Ossetians.
What part of "sovereignity" do the nuanced Euro trash, German reporterettes and sophisticated Diplomatc in DC not understand!?
Georgia was rightfully asserting control in their OWN territory against separatists controlled by a foreign power, which invaded. The timing is irrelevant. Georgia acted on own territory legally, Russia invaded illegaly. Case closed.
This all looks conspiciously like the Western diplomats trying to weasel out of the mess by making Georgia the fall guy.
and independent = an independent
Putin/Medvedev are lying sacks of poop, the KGB is in control of Russia and wants the old empire back, and the Euro-sheep will agree to anything that will let the Russkies off the hook.
If the Georgian were really the agressors, why didn't they destroy the tunnel (about 2 miles long) that links Russia and South Ossetia while the Russians were moving their armor through it?
"The crisis was sparked earlier this week when Georgia sent troops into the breakaway province of South Ossetia to quell a Russian-backed separatist uprising."
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Russia-On-Verge-Of-All-Out-War-As-Troops-Clash-In-Georgias-South-Ossetia/Article/200808215074261?lpos=World%2BNews_4&lid=ARTICLE_15074261_Russia%2BOn%2BVerge%2BOf%2BAll-Out%2BWar%2BAs%2BTroops%2BClash%2BIn%2BGeo
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From the New York Times, September 15, 2008
Georgia Offers Fresh Evidence on War’s Start
Russia has not disputed the veracity of the phone calls, which were apparently made by Ossetian border guards on a private Georgian cellphone network. “Listen, has the armor arrived or what?” a supervisor at the South Ossetian border guard headquarters asked a guard at the tunnel with the surname Gassiev, according to a call that Georgia and the cellphone provider said was intercepted at 3:52 a.m. on Aug. 7.
“The armor and people,” the guard replied. Asked if they had gone through, he said, “Yes, 20 minutes ago; when I called you, they had already arrived.”
Shota Utiashvili, the director of the intelligence analysis team at Georgia’s Interior Ministry, said the calls pointed to a Russian incursion. “This whole conflict has been overshadowed by the debate over who started this war,” he said. “These intercepted recordings show that Russia moved first and that we were defending ourselves.”
The recordings, however, do not explicitly describe the quantity of armor or indicate that Russian forces were engaged in fighting at that time.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/16/world/europe/16georgia.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
bumped for later
What’s the difference between Georgia and Serbia with her little problem of Kosovo? I think George H.W. Bush sided with Kosovo on that one. Can’t remember why though.
Spiegel is known for its connections with Russian Gazprom... I think this makes the case
It seems The Mirror (Der Spiegel) is more of a Funhouse Mirror (ein
Merkwürdigspiegel?).
It seems The Mirror (Der Spiegel) is more of a Funhouse Mirror (ein
Merkwürdighausspiegel?).
The Russians must have the most efficient military in the world to mobilize and act so quickly to changing events like that.
I don't like Putin and the Russians. But they were baited by Georgia. Ossetia has a very complex and tense political problem.
The Russians did over-react and lost control of its field commanders.
Actually, tensions were high prior to the military actions. The week prior Russia publicly warned Georgia not to invade. They also recommended that Ossetians evacuate the capital which they mostly did. So, the invasion came as no surprise. In all likelihood, the Russians also had satellite & human intelligence to give them a heads up. Troops massing on the border would not have gone unseen. When the Georgian peacekeepers abandoned their outposts, that meant military action was imminent.
Exactly, and pre-planned to boot.
So you think Georgia invaded her own territory?
You have it wrong. The Georgians were baited by the separatists in South Ossetia.
There have been constant escalations by both sides trying to gin up a military confrontation.
The Georgians were baited just as the Russians were, their mistake was militarily acting on it, offering a tactical bait to the Russians and an excuse to pre-emptive counter-attack.
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