Iraq: Detainee death cases headed to trial

Stars & Stripes ^ | September 13, 2008 | Matt Millham

[xzins]

It’s not just that the guy was an insurgent, BHF. It’s also that Behenna was ordered to release the guy.

Behenna has to prove the guy was an insurgent.

Then he has to prove that the orders to release the guy were wrong.

And there’s always the issue of the sparse info we have. Every other prosecution has shown the media/military to be severely reluctant to release details of cases against our troops.

[RedRover]

Eager to hear more about the specifics. I think we’ve all learned that the media ignores the defense in these cases, so we only hear prosecution charges. Hopefully, we’ll get a fuller picture of the events.

[xzins]

I read back through my posts sometimes, and I see all kinds of grammar, spelling, and other kinds of errors.

Please forgive.

And I haven’t even been drinking.

:>)

[Girlene]

Why is another alleged murder investigation being held outside of our country. This just makes no sense to me. Xzins, I agree that orders should be followed, and murder is not acceptable. This was not active combat. However, we haven’t heard the full story of this case. I am quite curious why these two soldiers would kill a detainee in front of a Iraqi translator. Surely they aren’t THAT stupid.

Also, the article isn’t clear whether Atkinson and Sanchez (the two who are testifying against Behenna and Warner) actually heard the shots/explosion or just were told the detainee had been killed. Maybe they did in the trial, the article just doesn’t say so.

If the released detainee truly was a bad guy/insurgent and can be proven so, it will go a long way toward the punishment phase. If the truth is that they ignored orders to release him, I have a feeling they will be convicted of something.

[xzins]

It is against regulation to follow illegal orders.

I don’t recall any such prohibition against following stupid orders.

But...maybe there should be.

With the info we have, I don’t see any way out other than jury nullification.

[bigheadfred]

in front of a Iraqi translator

We do need more info. I know our people want to trust the Iraqi's. But, IMO, trusting them is the stupid thing to do. That may be the case here.

The politics of it ensures a conviction, IMO.

And if this was an insurgent, they did the right thing. And if he was an insurgent, shoot the people who ordered his release, too.

Hey, x, thanks for clearing up the wording thing. Don't want the grammar police after us, huh Girlene? :-)

[Girlene]

I know our people want to trust the Iraqi's. But, IMO, trusting them is the stupid thing to do.

Color me skeptical as well. Verify, then trust. I'm glad Zimmerman is on this case.

Ha-ha, regarding the grammer police. I noticed xzins didn't "apologize" to me, now did he? He must not have thought I'd notice. :-)

[Girlene]

Here's a little more info. from AFP, Court martial for US soldier in Iraq sought .

......"Behenna ordered the detainee to sit, the translator said, adding that Behenna seemed to be keen to get information from the detainee regarding an attack on US troops in April.

The witness, who was acting as a translator to Behenna, said the officer asked the detainee several times: “What do you know you have to tell me.”

“Ali Mansur said I will talk to you but Lieutenant Behenna pulled trigger and killed him,” the translator said speaking in English, adding that Behenna had told him that the detainee was linked to an attack on US forces near Baiji on April 21.

That roadside bombing killed four people, including two American soldiers. “Before we started the patrol, Lieutenant Behenna told to Ali Mansur ‘I will kill you’. I thought Lieutenant Behenna was trying to scare him. I did not think he would go through (with it),” the translator added.

“I was standing 10 metres back during the shooting – I could see everything even if it was getting dark – and Sergeant Warner was next to me.”

Warner then “took the grenade from his pocket, pulled the safety ring, walked around and put the grenade under Ali Mansur’s head.

“Then they hid his clothes, and Behenna and Warner went back.”

On Saturday, two US soldiers from the same battalion as the accused also testified against Warner.

Corporal Cody Atkinson said that Behenna and Warner, armed with a grenade, took Mohammed out of the vehicle and under the bridge.

Mohammed was initially believed to have been freed along with another detainee at a checkpoint, but his naked and badly burnt body was found under the bridge the next day. "

----------------Some of this doesn't add up. If the witness was acting as Behenna's translator during this alleged interrogation, why was he standing 10 metres back with Warner? That's a long distance away.

[bigheadfred]

Meant to add x to post 26.

Some of this doesn't add up. If the witness was acting as Behenna's translator during this alleged interrogation, why was he standing 10 metres back with Warner? That's a long distance away.

I would like to say I wouldn't trust that translator as far as I could throw him. But with my Irish up and counting the spin, double bounce and roll, I could get that 10 meter distance.

So I better just say I wouldn't trust that translator at all.

Now, before I get on my high horse and begin a long rant, I'll meekly get back to work. (it's the new me) :-)

PS. Anyone want to buy a bridge?

[bigheadfred]

To all the people whom’s e-mail I don’t have.

2008 Democratic National Convention
Schedule of Events

7:00 pm OPENING CEREMONY: FLAG BURNING

7:15 pm PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE U.N.

7:30 pm Ted Kennedy PROPOSES A TOAST

7:45 pm NON RELIGIOUS PRAYER AND WORSHIP: Jessie Jackson
and Al Sharpton. Both collect the offering plates

8:00 pm Ted Kennedy PROPOSES A TOAST

8:05 pm CEREMONIAL TREE HUGGING by Darryl Hannah

8:15 pm GAY WEDDING PLANNING - Rosie O’Donnell

8:35 pm HONOR SADAM RALLY, featuring Cindy Sheehan and Susan Sarandon

9:00 pm KEYNOTE SPEECH: The proper etiquette for surrender - French
ex-president Jacques Chirac

9:15 pm Ted Kennedy PROPOSES A TOAST

9:20 pm COLLECTION TO BENEFIT OSAMA BIN LADEN KIDNEY TRANSPLANT FUND

9:30 pm UNVEILING OF PLAN TO FREE FREEDOM FIGHTERS FROM GUANTANAMO BAY

9:40 pm WHY I HATE THE MILITARY. A short talk by Bill Clinton

9:44 pm MY ETHICS, a shorter talk by Chris Dodd

9:45 pm Ted Kennedy PROPOSES A TOAST

9:50 pm DAN RATHER RECEIVES TRUTH IN BROADCASTING AWARD, presented by
Michael Moore

10:00 pm HOW GEORGE BUSH AND DONALD RUMSFELD BROUGHT DOWN THE
WORLD TRADE CENTER, by Howard Dean

10:30 pm NOMINATION OF BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA by
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

11:00 pm Ted Kennedy PROPOSES A TOAST

11:05 pm AL GORE RETELLS HOW HE INVENTED THE INTERNET

11:15 pm OUR TROOPS ARE WAR CRIMINALS - John Kerry

11:30 pm CORONATION OF BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, led by the New York Times

12:00 am Ted Kennedy closes the convention and PROPOSES A TOAST