Posted on 09/12/2008 10:04:48 PM PDT by LibFreeUSA
-"As president, John McCain will strongly support funding for promising research programs, including amniotic fluid and adult stem cell research and other types of scientific study that do not involve the use of human embryos". - www.johnmccain.com
I agree. My purpose for getting invovled in this thread was not to sway anyone away from McCain.
However, McCain needs to avoid pulling the “Lucy with a football” stuff with Conservatives. One or two percentage points may decide this election.
At this point, I’d say backtracking on embryonic stem cell research would lose him more votes than he gains. A year or two ago, before the advancements in adult stem cell research, this would not have been the case.
The media will use this as a wedge issue if it’s not cleared up. We’ve seen a small sample of it tonight.
Thanks for the thoughtful and civil posts.
McCain votes against abortions. He is saving those lives. He will get my vote on that. You want to have it all. Unfortunately, it is “a whole lot of good and some bad” or “nothing good whatsoever”. I choose to do some good with my vote. McCain will be much more likely to choose a Roberts or Alito or a Scalia and Obama will choose a Ginzburg or worse. Our next generation of babies can not afford that.
You’re being absurd. The baby is in heaven. I don’t see a whole lot of difference, at this point in time, between a experimented upon stem cell and a skin cell someone left behind. The stem cells are no longer that embryo. They are cells. The embryos, one would suppose, were discarded. I don’t like that, but it is likely the case. At this point, you are wasting money and time arguing over what can not be changed and missing the big picture of what can be change. You will allow MILLIONS to die because you were worried about the 100s. I would prefer to worry about both, but given the choice we have I choose to save more lives than less. We can not have it all this election. But, maybe we can work to get Congressmen in that will McCain-proof the issue. That’s where the energy should be spent at this juncture and in prayer that God changes McCain’s mind.
It's been a good debate.
I don't know if any positions were changed by the posters, but maybe those reading this thread will find some value.
I want to reiterate my last point:
God already knows who will win this election. The Bible tells us that He is not looking to us to do something that He can't do. We are simply to obey His word, and seek to honor Him in all that we do.
I will be the first person standing in line to vote for McCain if he will repent of his embryonic stem cell position and back away from it. But I will not vote for McCain (with his present position) and against God.
You realize that rational questions to an irrational poster are a waste of your efforts, right?
At this point, I respect your beliefs and your decision since you appear to be sincere in your beliefs.
I will say that my belief is that in politics you can still vote your conscience without having to compromise your principles.
I would offer that we are working with individuals in ‘phases’ (i.e. voting), and we continue to work with individuals and attempt to exert influence with them to have them take positions in our favor (their votes in congress or President).
So, we work with those individuals more prone to stand for our positions and principles (McCain-Palin) as opposed to those more in-contra to our positions (Obama-Biden) - which would have more dire consequences to our beliefs.
I feel that we have an ‘obligation’ to work more closely with those who will, not only support our basic moral positions, but also stop and impede more dire consequences.
You may not agree with this, so I will leave it that we agree to disagree.
At this point, I respect your beliefs and your decision since you appear to be sincere in your beliefs.
I will say that my belief is that in politics you can still vote your conscience without having to compromise your principles.
I would offer that we are working with individuals in ‘phases’ (i.e. voting), and we continue to work with individuals and attempt to exert influence with them to have them take positions in our favor (their votes in congress or President).
So, we work with those individuals more prone to stand for our positions and principles (McCain-Palin) as opposed to those more in-contra to our positions (Obama-Biden) - which would have more dire consequences to our beliefs.
I feel that we have an ‘obligation’ to work more closely with those who will, not only support our basic moral positions, but also stop and impede more dire consequences.
You may not agree with this, so I will leave it that we agree to disagree.
It's been a good debate FRiend. May the Lord greatly bless your week!
He also votes *for* Planned Parenthood, and is destroying all of those lives.
He is an opportunist on Life, at best, and has opposed the organized Pro-life movement more than anyone on the right.
I choose to do some good with my vote. McCain will be much more likely to choose a Roberts or Alito or a Scalia and Obama will choose a Ginzburg or worse.
Choose what you like, but do not suppose that your decision is based on much more than faint hope and fancy- McCain's record is easy to find, and his traitorous manipulations against Conservatives and America never cease- Even now, his happy (gay) little elf works with his "gang of 10" to destroy the hard work of the Conservative House, while he [McCain] stands on the stump yelling "Drill! Drill! Drill!". NOTHING has changed at all.
bttt
First, this is what Planned Parenthood says. I take it as a reason to vote for him:
McCain has earned a zero percent rating from the Planned Parenthood Action Fund for consistently voting against women’s health on issues ranging from funding for family planning programs to requiring insurance coverage of birth control.
In February 2007, the Associated Press quoted McCain as saying, “I do not support Roe versus Wade. It should be overturned.” We have more about McCain’s extremist views, in his own words.
McCain’s choice of Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as a running mate is the latest example of how completely out of touch he is on the issues that matter to American women.
My second point will be in the next post.
As you sit in your home in another part of the country, you watch the nightly news and find out that the entire population of New York city has just been emptied out and each house, apartment, nook and cranny has been filled with children. 4 million of them. Next, a man steps up to the screen and says that those children are there because they weren’t wanted anyway, and his plan is to kill them, 1,000,000 a year, until they are all gone. Those who survive the murder attempt will be given no medical attention whatsoever and will be left in cold dirty alleys to die. He does this to honor some fabled “intent” of the mothers of those children who didn’t want them in the first place. He also promises to appoint judges that will ensure the killing of children for many decade to come. All America has to do to see this happen is to vote for him, or at least don’t vote against him for his opponent.
The opponent steps up to the stand, and while confused about some important issues promises that he will not only prevent the killing of these 4,000,000 children; but, he is going to work on promoting their adoption. As security that he means it, he points to a record where he for the most part supported the preservation of life in the past; as well as his staunchly pro-life running mate whom he respects deeply. Unfortunately, you know that voting for this guy will also entail the possibility that a few children would be killed before they were able to live on their owns in a misguided attempt to preserve life in other capacities. However, this same Candidate is giving signals that he is favoring areas of research that even these children would not have to be killed in order to preserve life. He promises to appoint judges that will respect the Constitution which guarantees life, judges that will be deciding this issue for many decades to come.
Now, you are faced with the choice. Will you allow 1,000,000 babies to go to their deaths each year as an entire generation is destroyed because you could not get it all?
I have stated in the past that if McCain’s pick were pro-choice, I would not vote for him. McCain plus a death candidate is a death ticket. But, he chose well. Now, it is McCain plus Palin, a life ticket. McCain isn’t a neutral in this scenario; however, he will save many more lives than Obama will; and that is why he has my vote.
My reply, in links:
But this post isn’t about embryonic stem cell research. I have told everyone since the first day of his campaign that he will not pursue it.
Have some faith.
Michelle Malkins article doesn’t appear to speak to the subject so much. McCain gets a 66% Rating with National Right to Life. I never said he was perfect. I only committed to vote for him at the Palin pick. Life is VERY important; and my statement above stands as well. 66 is better than zero. Babies will live.
For what it's worth, the Catholic Church says you should, since every candidate has shortcomings. The important thing is to hold a candidate's positions in perspective. For instance, abortion is always wrong. The policies a candidate supports on issues that are morally more ambiguous or less serious, such as taxation, should count for less.
Obambi is always wrong.
You don’t know the Bible as well as you think you do.
Edmund Burke once said “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
God commands us in His Word to stand up against evil against the weak and defenseless. Psalms 82 says:
3Give justice to the weak and the orphan; maintain the right of the lowly and the destitute.
4Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.
That is a command to action. Not to sit around and pontificate. The Bible is also loaded with examples of God’s judgment upon the rulers of Israel who let evil men run rampant. The books of Kings, Ezekiel, Joshua, Jeremiah have numerous passages and even chapters with this theme.
First of all, If we were to go by election year promises alone, it would be your argument that even the likes of Rudy Giuliani and Mitt Romney should be palatable to the Pro-Life crowd, as their promises were no less endearing.
Secondly, The Christian Right, had it not been insistent upon the Pro-Life position it has taken, would have compromised itself into oblivion by now. The Republican Party does not want the Christians in it, even more so than the rest of the Conservatives, and all along, they have desired to blunt the spear point of the Pro-Life movement as the issue around which all the Christian Right coalesces.
Lastly, Since the Republicans have had thirty years of varied power to deliver on this issue for the Christians, and have *not*, and as they have not delivered greatly on any other issue which Christians hold to be of importance, The Pro-Life movement has become more insistent in later years, being quite firm in it's desire for an overturning of R v W by way of Amendment or Bill, rather than relying on turning the matter back to the states- A decision that is quite correct in the law, as I would add, IMHO.
In that the definition of *PRO-LIFE* is now including by definition the amending of the Constitution to forever enshrine the protection of life in the womb, Mr. McCain and Governor Palin both fail to meet the full requirement necessary to satisfy the Pro-Life community, as they both merely support the overturning of RvW in the SCOTUS, rather than by Amendment.
What impact that will have on Palin's popularity among Evangelicals, now that her Pro-Life position has been defined during her Gibson interview on ABC is yet to be seen. But for McCain, Considering his already horrible record, I cannot support him at all, for any reason.
As to your obviously inaccurate little storyline:
There is a BIG difference. I would not be voting *for* 0bama, and his abortions. You are asking me to vote *FOR* McCain's abortions and to SUPPORT them.
What hath light to do with darkness?
I will not vote for, or support any abortion. I will oppose, tooth and nail, ALL abortions, every one.
And babies will DIE.
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