No consensus on who was behind Sept 11-global poll

Reuters via Newsmeat.com ^ | 9/10/08 | Puppage

[Puppage]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Seven years after the Sept. 11 attacks, there is no consensus outside the United States that Islamist militants from al Qaeda were responsible, according to an international poll published Wednesday.

The survey of 16,063 people in 17 nations found majorities in only nine countries believe al Qaeda was behind the attacks on New York and Washington that killed about 3,000 people in 2001.

U.S. officials squarely blame al Qaeda, whose leader Osama bin Laden has boasted of organizing the suicide attacks by his followers using hijacked commercial airliners.

On average, 46 percent of those surveyed said al Qaeda was responsible, 15 percent said the U.S. government, 7 percent said Israel and 7 percent said some other perpetrator. One in four people said they did not know who was behind the attacks.

The poll was conducted by WorldPublicOpinion.org, a collaborative project of research centers in various countries managed by the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland in the United States.

In Europe, al Qaeda was cited by 56 percent of Britons and Italians, 63 percent of French and 64 percent of Germans. The U.S. government was to blame, according to 23 percent of Germans and 15 percent of Italians.

Respondents in the Middle East were especially likely to name a perpetrator other than al Qaeda, the poll found.

Israel was behind the attacks, said 43 percent of people in Egypt, 31 percent in Jordan and 19 percent in the Palestinian Territories. The U.S. government was blamed by 36 percent of Turks and 27 percent of Palestinians.

In Mexico, 30 percent cited the U.S. government and 33 percent named al Qaeda.

The only countries with overwhelming majorities blaming al Qaeda were Kenya with 77 percent and Nigeria with 71 percent.

Interviews were conducted in China, Indonesia, Nigeria, Russia, Egypt, France, Germany, Britain, Italy, Jordan, Kenya, Mexico, the Palestinian Territories, South Korea, Taiwan, Turkey and Ukraine.

The poll, taken between July 15 and Aug. 31, had a margin of error of plus or minus 3 to 4 percent. (Reporting by JoAnne Allen; Editing by John O'Callaghan)

[Puppage]

I suppose this is the very same world that wants Obama as president?

[Cheerio]

15 percent said the U.S. government

It is hard for me to believe that 15% of the US population are conspiracy theorists. HOW COULD SO MANY PEOPLE KEEP A SECRET? EVEN NSA CANNOT KEEP ITS SECRETS OFF THE FRONT PAGE OF THE NY SLIMES.

[antioscar]

sad... really sad.

[WaterBoard]

When people look around for answer to why the world thinks the US government was responsible for 9/11 -— point your finger directly at Hollywood and the Democrat Party.

The Fahrenheit 911, Hollywood Liberals, and Democrat politicians played up the US Government angle and now many in the world believe them.

[Puppage]

sad... really sad.

And, what's really sad is that the US will have to save their sorry asses like we've done time & again.

[NewMexLurker]

This must be the same group of non-USA people who greatly prefer Obama for president.

[shempy]

I’d like to see the percentage belief that the US is responsible, country by country. Then I’d like to see it in comparison with country by country support for Obama, as reported in the world poll from a few days ago. I bet dollars to dough nuts that these correlate.

[johnny7]

I suppose this is the very same world that wants Obama as president?

LOL... and the same ones who will be leaving the planet when he loses.

[Halo-JM]

You got it 100% right!

[Redbob]

Those who don't believe muzzies were responsible are muslims, right?
</sarcasm>

[nathanbedford]

In Europe, al Qaeda was cited by 56 percent of Britons and Italians, 63 percent of French and 64 percent of Germans. The U.S. government was to blame, according to 23 percent of Germans and 15 percent of Italians

These numbers are not accidents. I live in Germany and my next-door neighbor believes that the CIA and the a hand in the 9/11 attack. It is not because these people are stupid or culturally inferior. German public restrooms make the United States look like the Third World. Their educational system is one of the most effective in the world. The reason lies elsewhere. I believe it is the accumulated results of years of indoctrination of the theories of The Frankfurt School.

In a slightly different context in response to a poster named "Austrian" I posted the following and I think it is relevant here.

First the comment from Austria then my response:

why is it that every time someone writes how dangerous russia is for Europe and that we should pi$$ in our pants and fear the russian bear. you have a 99% chance that the writer is a american citizen. you don´t hear that from people who are living in europe very often (and we are the one who are living in constant danger like you think). do you really think it´s because we are all “retarded” and don´t know what is going on on our own continent? to blind to see the ultimate threat? or could it be because there russian military IS no real danger for EU? at least no bigger danger than to any other country (including the US) in this world? (every country that has enought nukes to end the world is theoretical a danger to every one in this world) but there is no need to panik.

My response follows:

No, Austrian, I do not think people who believe this are blinded, I think they are terminally cynical and stunningly hypocritical. I believe that the Austrians, ( I am living about 15 miles from the Austrian border in Germany,) and the Germans and most of the rest of the European Union have calculated that the United States will protect them. That the age of World War II style aggression in Europe is over. They think we live in a new age, a nuclear age, which means that the size of the country no longer matters. All that matters now is that even the greatest conventional military is checked when confronted with nuclear power. So long as the nuclear power of America and the conventional power of America is credible, the Austrias of the world need not trouble themselves,they need not contribute to a joint effort to keep the world safe, free, and peaceful.

So small countries like Austria need not arm themselves because America will do the job for them. America will do it for them on a strategic nuclear basis and America will do it for them on a conventional arms basis. Having made this calculation, they can now conclude that it is in their economic best interest to divert their monies to their own pleasures and their own social net.

This is a cynical calculation. At its core it is immoral. It is only human nature to contrive a rationalization to justify this kind of cynicism. So the Austrians invoke hypocrisy, they are moral and America is not. America is really no better than the Bear whom America defends them from. Now the Austrians in their coffee shops can self righteously return to their coffee undistressed by their moral equivalence.

There are other things driving this attitude which you have expressed. You have use of America as an unpaid protector but you despise them as unpaid mercenaries. The trouble with mercenaries is they are often unreliable and in the crunch uncontrollable. It is human nature to believe that you are smarter than everybody else, and I suspect the Austrians are no different from my neighbors here in Germany, or, for that matter, my neighbors back in America. In those coffee shops it must be frustrating not to be unable to control your mercenaries in places like Iraq or Vietnam. So the hypocrisy, generated by our human natures to cover our cynicism, is reinforced by events around the world. Ultimately, it gets to the point where the self-deception is so gross that a substantial portion of Europe can actually believe that the 9/11 attacks were part of a conspiracy by the CIA. This is the degree to which any of us can go in self-delusion to relieve us of the burden of our sins. This is the inevitable result of your moral dilemma.

It is human nature to fear the "mercenary" and they have been despised since Roman times. In despising America, the Austrian coffee sippers are only acting in accordance with human nature which afflicts us all every day. You want your mercenary but you want them caged, or at least on a leash, and you know that is morally wrong so you begin to blame not the "victim" but your savior. To admit that you need a Savior is to admit that you are and an inferior position, that you are in need of a Savior. Again, this is contrary to human nature so eventually you find a thousand reasons why you are superior and your savior is inferior.

The Frankfurt School has given us critical theory and relativism. The Frankfurt School, regrettably, has a huge impact on thinking in Europe as well as on the left in America. The cynicism of the critical theory means that those institutions and theories which support civilization must be attacked and denigrated, usually by equating good with evil, so that defenses against the oneworldism and socialism of the left give way. To be incapable of distinguishing good from evil, Russia from America, is a tragic symptom of this disease.

Just as I had finished dictating this, my neighbor came in and I asked her to review this post. She is a well-educated German who has lived in America for a long time. Her husband, a Ph.D., is a staunch conservative but she, alas, is a typical German female of the left leaning persuasion. You might be cheered to know that she agrees with you and vehemently disagrees with me.

[DustyMoment]

Seven years after the Sept. 11 attacks, there is no consensus outside the United States that Islamist militants from al Qaeda were responsible, according to an international poll published Wednesday.

WHATT!!!??? NO consensus!?

In today's world of collectivism and not having a consensus, the thought police must be getting lax!!

After all, if a "consensus" of climatologists believe in Glow Bull Warming (and pray at the Gore Church of the Global Hoax), apparently there is supposed to be a "consensus" on the 9/11 murderers!! In that vein, how many people still don't believe that the Holocaust was real?? How many believe that George Bush and Dick Cheney bombed Pearl Harbor pretending to be Japanese planes?? And, who REALLY put the "bop" in the "bop-she-bop-she-bop"!!!????

The WORLD wants answers!!!!



(God, writing BS is FUN!! No wonder lefties do it so much!!)

[denydenydeny]

U.S. officials squarely blame al Qaeda, whose leader Osama bin Laden has boasted of organizing the suicide attacks by his followers using hijacked commercial airliners.

Squarely blame. As if there are two sides to the story.

[Iron Munro]

No consensus on who was behind Sept 11-global poll

How could this be possible?

June 6, 1944: D-Day

[uglybiker]

These people need to look harder!
If they look hard enough, they'll get a clue!

Ooh! I'm starting to get a clue right now!

[citizencon]

No wonder.
The people of the world don’t get intel briefings, they get their ‘news’ from the liberal MSM and entertainment from Hollywood.

[pepsionice]

After living in Germany for fifteen years, I’ll offer this analysis. The majority live off the news of channel one or channel two. If you talk printed matter...its Bild the daily paper or their weekly Speigel. They tend to accept whats said on any of these four forums....without questioning anything. You ask them to do research? They look at you and ask why?

I know of Germans who’ve traveled to the heartland of the US and grasp the fundamentals of American society more than their friends who go to Miami, New York and Las Vegas. If you asked the heartland travlers who would they rely upon in an emergency...most would smile and immediately answer their American associates in Missouri or Texas.

My German wife will proudly proclaim to friends that she reads three books per year...while I quietly sit there never saying a word about the 26 books I read per year. The majority of my neighbors would be lucky to admit that they read more than two books a year.

Most of the talking points that Germans will use in any argument are simply what they heard the night before on Channel One...so when I bring up a dozen facts that weren’t mentioned...they immediately want to let me know that these aren’t facts..and then I cite London papers, New York Times, and various internet sources. After about two minutes of discussion...their ambitions of argument rapidly go down the drain.

[DustyMoment]

I like your response to “Austrian”, but to be fair, in a sense, we may be responsible for the attitude much of Europe has toward us.

Following the end of WWII and the Berlin Airlift, we Americans did adopt a swagger and exhibit quite a bit of the Ugly American attitude toward Europe. That attitude over time has morphed into one of disdain and contempt for America. It isn’t the first time this has occurred. Following the end of WWI, Germany initially felt shame over its defeat. However, over time, that shame turned to anger and the anger was embodied in Hitler. We all know how well that turned out.

The current anti-America attitude that we see in Europe today is the result of both our liberating them from the nazis and infusing them with cash to re-build to keep the Soviets out. Ultimately, you are correct that it is the cynicism of Europe that drives them to hold us in contempt, yet call upon us to save them from bigger threats or devastating natural events.

In addition, we expect Europeans who weren’t alive during WWII to appreciate the things we have done to help Europe for the past 60-odd years. They didn’t experience Hitler’s domination and totalitarianism, but they did experience America’s arrogance and (in Germany, at least) military presence.

So, while I agree with your well-written response, I also see the other side of the coin and understand their exasperation with us. In essence, they have (by necessity) moved past WWII, but many Americans have not.

By the same token, they have lulled themselves into a sense of complacency. Despite all the progress we have all made since the end of WWII, Europe relies on both NATO and the US for its defense. The question I would ask is this: What if Europe gave a war and America didn’t (or couldn’t, due to reduced troop strengths) come??

[nathanbedford]

I have been living here about 20 years myself and I can confirm everything you just said. It is remarkable that the average German, that is Germans who are not academics, rely on extraordinarily limited sources. When you point out facts contrary to the received knowledge, one is regarded with extreme skepticism. Indeed one is likely to be counted some sort of fanatical American.

I also agree with your assessment about the folks who get to America, providing they stay out of the natural habitats of liberals.

[Sprite518]

I guess Bin Laden and Bush were conspiring together. So their really good friends and not enemies. LOL!

Also that missile attack on our Pentagon. Yeah that had to been some fighter pilot in on it.

Oh and that air flight that did not really hit the Pentagon was sucked up by Aliens.....

LOL! Morons! Their too stupid for their own good. LOL!

I promise you this too. If there was no tape of the two aircraft hitting the twin towers. 10 to 1 these Morons would be saying the Jets never hit the towers. Kind of just like the Pentagon... Unfreakin believable...