Posted on 09/09/2008 1:27:15 PM PDT by neverdem
John Noble said he’s openly worn a handgun while attending the annual Maple Syrup Festival in Bradys Run Park.
He’s worn it to a Bridgewater book signing.
The Industry man said he’s never been confronted by police over his habit of wearing a holstered pistol on his waist — that is until Aug. 29.
Noble’s arrest at the Barack Obama campaign rally at Beaver’s Irvine Park has raised questions about gun rights.
“There was no disturbance until (law enforcement) made one,” Noble said.
Beaver County District Attorney Anthony Berosh said the issue isn’t whether Noble was legally carrying a gun. State police said Noble did not violate the state’s open carry law, under which you don’t need a permit to carry a weapon in plain sight.
Instead, Berosh said, it’s a battle between two constitutional rights: The right to bear arms and the right to assemble peaceably and without fear.
“No constitutional right pre-empts the other,” Berosh said.
Berosh said Noble did not have the right to alarm anyone around him attending the Barack Obama rally in Irvine Park.
While Noble’s intentions might not have been sinister, Berosh said, “The people who don’t know him don’t know that.”
Noble’s arrest at the Obama rally has set off controversy. Gun right advocates say Noble’s rights were stepped on, while others say Noble should have known better than to take a gun to a presidential campaign rally.
Noble said he had no ill intent and that Obama’s constitutional rights didn’t take precedence over his.
THE INCIDENT
Noble was standing in McIntosh Park, next to Irvine Park, when people noticed that he was packing a gun in a holster and notified sheriff’s deputies.
After a brief confrontation Noble was taken into custody, and his gun, a Glock 9mm, was confiscated. He was questioned by state police and released.
Deputies and state police have said Noble did not threaten anyone with the gun, and it remained in his holster until it was confiscated. The gun hasn’t been returned yet.
THE FALLOUT
On Friday, state police charged Noble with one count each of disorderly conduct and disrupting meetings and processions.
State police wrote in a criminal complaint that they think Noble intended to disrupt the rally, because he posted a message on a Web site just before the rally telling people to “bring their guns and Bibles.”
State police said Noble put others around him in fear for their safety and that law enforcement agents had to abandon their posts at the Obama rally to deal with Noble.
State police did say that Noble did not illegally possess his weapon.
Federal authorities said they would not file charges against Noble because he did not enter Irvine Park. To do so, he would have had to pass through a metal detector.
THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS
Beaver County Sheriff George David said a person who is wearing a gun in a holster, out in the open, doesn’t need a license to carry that weapon.
However, a person who wants to keep a weapon concealed on his body or carry it in a vehicle must obtain a license. Extra permission is necessary for a concealed weapon, David said, because a concealed weapon poses a greater danger to police.
A weapon is considered concealed if it’s worn under clothing or kept in a vehicle.
While David said he’s a gun advocate, he said Noble should not have taken the gun to the rally because of all the security present for Obama’s protection.
“I don’t think this was the time or the place to show your rights,” David said.
Noble’s case is not unique, however.
According to published reports, a Louisiana man last month received a monetary settlement for his January 2006 arrest at a Baton Rouge shopping mall.
In the incident, a police officer approached Mark Marchiafava, 55, of Baton Rouge, and asked why he was openly wearing a holstered weapon in a mall. Marchiafava replied that because he wasn’t a felon, he could legally carry a weapon in the open.
The officer took Marchiafava into custody and charged him with a count of illegal gun possession.
The charge was later dropped, and Marchiafava’s weapon was returned, but he sued the police department, claiming a violation of his civil rights. The terms of the settlement with the department have been sealed.
Noble’s case has already been heavily discussed on Web sites dedicated to gun rights.
Mike Stollenwerk, co-founder of OpenCarry.org, said Friday, “John Noble was arrested for engaging in peaceful, constitutionally protected conduct in a park open to the public, i.e., passing out fliers while carrying a handgun in a secure holster. Noble was not intoxicated, fighting, cursing, or making loud noises.”
He also said, “Pennsylvania courts have repeatedly said that ‘the offense of disorderly conduct is not intended as catchall for every act which annoys or disturbs people,’ but the police in Noble’s case blatantly ignored the law and turned Pennsylvania’s disorderly conduct statute into a license to grab people off the street at will.”
Berosh said, “You have a right to strike a match, unless you’re in a TNT factory.”
Berosh also said it’s unfortunate that there’s “historical precedent” of violence at political rallies and presidential appearances, including the shootings of John F. Kennedy, his brother Robert F. Kennedy and Ronald Reagan.
In the charges filed against Noble, state police trooper Shawn Schexnaildre wrote that if witness John Atkinson hadn’t been alarmed by Noble, Atkinson wouldn’t have notified nearby officers.
“This may be due to the fact that a political assassination is as devastating as any crime that can be committed and is nearly always committed with a gun. Either way, (Noble’s) actions, without question, created a public alarm,” Schexnaildre wrote.
Bill Vidonic can be reached online at bvidonic@timesonline.com.
WHEN DO YOU NEED A LICENSE?
In Pennsylvania, only those who wish to carry a concealed weapon must obtain a license.
Statute 18 P.C.S, 6106 defines when a person is breaking the law: Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
The punishment for the offense would depend on what a person’s prior criminal record is.
Source: Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes.
MAP OF SCENE
To see a map of the scene of Noble’s arrest, created by members of PAOpenCarry.org, go to http://paopencarry.org/beaver/map.jpg (State police and the Beaver County sheriff’s department have not commented on the accuracy of the map.)
At first, I thought this was the UK's timesonline.com.
Mr. Noble was foolish to show up at an Obama rally carrying a weapon. You don’t poke sticks at security guys who are already on edge.
Mr. Noble was foolish to show up at an Obama rally carrying a weapon. You don’t poke sticks at security guys who are already on edge.
He was probably a plant by the hussein campaign.
The note at the bottom that said..........punishment depends on the person’s criminal record? Chances are if he had a criminal record he wouldn’t be dumb enough to wear it in public. However, if he was merely exercising his Constitutional rights, this could turn in to a bucket of crap. Better believe Barky [as a candidate and a lefty attorney] will use it in some way.
YES. They would have thought him harmless....that or a Che Guevera T-shirt.
Maybe so, but the proper course of action was to ask him to leave the gun in his vehicle, as it wasn’t allowed in the rally. No need to arrest him.
Three nights ago my kids were enjoying target practice with my son’s new .22. We had the target set up so there was a berm behind it and I was supervising the whole time. They burned up over a hundred shots.
The local sheriff showed up to tell me that neighbors had called in a complaint. They said that we’d been “shooting over their heads”, “shooting in the air” and that “bullets were flying above their house”. Bullets were going nowhere near their property.
The sheriff is a reasonable man. He stood where we were standing and walked out to the target. Did a lot of eye-rolling. Explained to me that I was breaking no laws and that he hoped my kids had enjoyed their shooting.
According to the police in this man’s case, I’d be breaking the law because my neighbors were scared and we’d be in serious trouble.
Obama said they were clinging to them. What did they expect? /s
I wonder how this will be resolved? I don't want to see taxpayers take the hit.
I am a supporter of gun rights. But I can support the police and the secret service in keeping anyone with a gun a long way from any Presidential candidate. I attended a Bush rally in 2004. They would not even let me take a camera in. Heaven only knows what they would have done if I had a gun.
So in this case, I think the need to protect a Presidential candidate tops that of a gun owner to carry a gun.
The problem with your assertion and the citation written out by State police is this:
Far more people are killed by cars every year, and people are run over deliberately by drivers.
So, are you, and the PA State police, going to arrest everyone who shows up in a car, at a political rally, for fear they might run over someone?
I see no where that this person was advocating violence, nor is part of any type of group advocating violence.
From what I see, he was engaging in free speech, demonstrating for his right to keep an bear arms.
If the police are going to engage in this type of preemptive arrest because “this person might do something dangerous,” then they might as well arrest all women, because “they might become hookers” and arrest all men “because they might become Johns.”
I couldn't agree more. I don't see that the 2nd Amendment extends to carrying guns when we go to listen to a politician's speech. It certainly isn't allowed, no way no how, when it's the President speaking.
Help me out here. I graduated from law school way back in 1990, and seem to have forgotten where in the Constitution we're guaranteed the right to assemble without fear.
You assume that Mr. Noble did nothing to provoke the response, but that does not fit what the article states.
Read the parts of the article headed "THE INCIDENT" and "THE FALLOUT."
The first key phrase would appear to be, "after a brief confrontation Noble was taken into custody." So he was arguing with the cops -- a dumb move, considering the context. I'd be willing to bet it was the argument, not the gun, that got him arrested.
And, also, "State police wrote in a criminal complaint that they think Noble intended to disrupt the rally, because he posted a message on a Web site just before the rally telling people to 'bring their guns and Bibles.'"
So he apparently wasn't there by accident, and his gun was part of the "costume," if you will. There'd be no point in his leaving it in the car if his intent was to engage in "performance art."
I don't know Mr. Noble, and thus can only guess at his true motives, and his public demeanor. All I can say is that this incident reminds me of something that happened with Rick Stanley, a rather demented Coloradan who ran as a Libertarian for US Senate a few years back. Let's hope that Mr. Noble's behavior isn't as injurious to the image of RKBA as Mr. Stanley's was.
Perhaps the security people should give up their guns too. After all we don't have 1st class and 2nd class citizenship, y'know. Everyone is equal under the law.
Next you'll be asking that politicians be held to special standards of truthfulness and honesty when speaking, and not allowed to lie and pander as freedom of speech does not apply when a person speaks while seeking public office....
He was outside the security zone that people had to go through a metal detector to enter. This is pure harassment. He was on the periphery of the rally and totally within his rights.
So, we give up our rights for one person? Nope, sorry.
Of interest, fellas...!
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