Warrants could lead to more FLDS charges

It's a doggone shame we still have SOME Freepers who think of children as being their parent(s) property.

What you have just done is fail to realize it is not the parent's rights I am trying to protect here. It's not because of the parents supposed property rights that I address this issue, but rather the right of the children to be free from illegal abduction under the color of law.

These children were not returned because they were the property of the parents. They were returned because CPS had no business removing them in the first place. It was deemed by the court not to be a lawful action.

You may not like the process set in place by the law to deal with the rights of children, but there it is. It's not unconstitutional.

You may not like the verdict, but it destroys your arguement here. The children were returned because CPS exceded it's mandate and acted in a manner that was deemed unconstitutional.

You are in error. The children were not unconditionally “returned”, but the families they were returned to continued to be under CPS supervision.

Look, the children were returned. The taking was found to be unlawful. The stipulations don’t matter. I’m glad there are stipulations. I wish one of them was that the adult men would have to vacate until they were cleared.

They weren't found "unlawful", just that the "technique" was not supported by statute ~ and the kids AND their mommies and babydaddies were left under court and CPS supervision.

Lot of difference between "unlawful" and "not supported by statute" ~ particualarly when something else, e.g. "supervision" was supported by statute.

At most there was an administrative error ~ not at all a crime.

It was unlawful. That means it was a crime.

If you had done what they did, you would be dead before you were let out of prison. They do it under the color of law, and get a complete pass on it.

I’m rather strident on this because I still believe there were some games being played here, that they also got a pass on.

We’re not going to agree on this. I appreciate your take on it.

Nope, not "unlawful" ~

I know you'd prefer that all the evidence be built and then the perps snatched and put on trial the next day, but sometimes that's not how it works.

Recall when the ATF guys decided they had the goods on David Koresh, all the evidence they needed, and then did a frontal assault with machineguns on the Mt. Carmel Compound?

They should have made arrangements to take the children to a safe place first, but they didn't.

As far as I'm concerned your approach to dealing with situations involving children is not different than that of ATF at Waco ~ and is still not a good idea.

Nope, not "unlawful" Look, you can take that stand until hell freezes over, the fact is the court deemed the act to be unlawful and demanded CPS return the children. If it had not been deemed unlawful, the children would still be in foster homes.

I know you'd prefer that all the evidence be built and then the perps snatched and put on trial the next day, but sometimes that's not how it works. I never said this, so I'm not going to address this assumption on your part.

Recall when the ATF guys decided they had the goods on David Koresh, all the evidence they needed, and then did a frontal assault with machineguns on the Mt. Carmel Compound? They should have made arrangements to take the children to a safe place first, but they didn't.

As far as I'm concerned your approach to dealing with situations involving children is not different than that of ATF at Waco ~ and is still not a good idea. This is another assumption that I'm not going to be drawn off topic to address.

That's not what the court ruled. You can think they did all you want, but the children remained under court and CPS supervision.

The dispute was over "form", not "substance".

Let's say you are going to relocate so you go to the post office and pick up a change of address form.

You take it home, fill it out, and think you've done everything required of you only to find out later that you didn't sign the form.

That form is a part of the regulatory process ~ a federal regulation no less ~ and you are required to sign it to get the service you want.

Failure to sign the form is not against the law, but it's stupid. Your mail will go to someone else where it will be disposed of as trash.

Same here. The court said the statute didn't quite support all the things done, but, in general, they were on the right track but they'd have to limit it to "supervision" unless they had specific information regarding kids who were being or would be abused in the manner specified ~ so, CPS and the lower court accommodated that thought.

No, the court and CPS were not subjected to discipline, nor did they violate the law.

That's not what the court ruled. You can think they did all you want, but the children remained under court and CPS supervision. I don't believe you'll find me stating that CPS did not remain in a supervisory role with regard to the children. That's why I find it strange that you continue to bring up that point. It's an uncontested point.

The dispute was over "form", not "substance". The dispute was over what was deemed legal according to the law, and CPS was found to have taken actions that were outside the law. You can't take some 460 children away from their parents/guardians and disburse them across the state of Texas for the reasons and in the maner that CPS and the authorities did. Therefore the act was an act that was not in accordance with the law. And therefore that act was illegal.

Once the act was committed, you can't simply say oops. The fact of the matter is that CPS and the local authorities operated outside the law to do what they did. And that got smacked down for it.

Let's say you are going to relocate so you go to the post office and pick up a change of address form. You take it home, fill it out, and think you've done everything required of you only to find out later that you didn't sign the form. That form is a part of the regulatory process ~ a federal regulation no less ~ and you are required to sign it to get the service you want. Failure to sign the form is not against the law, but it's stupid. Your mail will go to someone else where it will be disposed of as trash. If my mail doesn't get forwared because I don't follow through with the proper procedures, it's a mistake. It is not a crime. I wouldn't have done something that the court would be compelled to order me to cease and desist.

Same here. I don't see it the same at all. My act would result in my not getting my mail. The act we're talking about was the illegal removal over over 460 children from their parents/guardians for up to two months.

The court said the statute didn't quite support all the things done, but, in general, they were on the right track but they'd have to limit it to "supervision" unless they had specific information regarding kids who were being or would be abused in the manner specified ~ so, CPS and the lower court accommodated that thought. Here you make it sound like CPS and the lower court had a choice. "Oh they just accommodated that thought." Yikes. The removed 460 plus children by force and the higher court said it was not legal to do so. If something is not legal, what is it? You tell me.

No, the court and CPS were not subjected to discipline, nor did they violate the law. They violated the law, period. They were not disciplined. Of course not. Law enforcement and CPS can do whatever the hell they want to and get away with it. If the parents at the farm had objected to the takings and refused to comply, the authoritied would have used lethal force to take those kids. And then the court would have said, you didn't have any right to take all those kids. And the court would have allowed the authorities to skate on any charges for killing people.

I don't agree with this. CPS and the local authorities overstepped their mandate. And they got away with it. One wonders what the authorities would have to do to receive any punitive measures. Frankly, I don't see anything that evern remotely makes me think they would get in trouble no matter what they did down there. That to me is a very very dangerous message to be telegraphed to the various local authorities across this nation. Hey, it's open season on those you don't like. Get a bogus phone call to support a warrant, go in with APCs, automatic weapons, take anyone you want into custody and throw away the key whether legal or not, and the worst you'll get for it is authorized access to any location you want with no limits on what evidence you want to collect.

You obviously agree with what took place in this instance. What bothers me is that you honestly can't see where this precident would be problematic in other situations.

“Git a rope!”

I find it hard to believe anything the gov’t says regarding the FLDS. They have lied, lied, and lied. Remember all the little boys with broken bones? Remember all the little girls who turned out to be adult women? Remember all the accusations of abuse? Remember, remember, remember. Remember the military-style raid and round up of innocent children? Remember the dumping in a coliseum and literally ripping innocent children from their mother’s arms? Remember the little ones over one year old dumped in strange frightening foster homes all across the state of TX? Remember this whole thing started as a result of a false report? Remember the adult women held against their will for two months? Remember two adult women giving birth while CPS officials watched hoping to snatch the babies? Remember the media’s heinous attacks based on false information? Remember how the government is trying to confiscate property and possessions without due process? Remember how the FLDS ranch in TX is right in the path of the NAFTA super highway?

That’s why I do not believe anything the government says about the FLDS. They tried, with the help of vicious bigots, to destroy this community, even trying to deny them the right to procreate.

The government punished the innocent, assuming the entire community was guilty. They tried to prosecute and destroy an entire community, trashing their God-given Constitutional rights. Remember?!

I do not trust the government. They lost me at hello - when I saw that horrific looking “tank” roll in and the snipers posted behind boulders. And Baptist buses hired by the state to haul away screaming children. For God’s said, remember!