Posted on 09/02/2008 2:46:24 AM PDT by rellimpank
When you act like a carpetbagger , maybe forever.
“In an arrest warrant, investigators say the bulk of the bison — 14 of them — were killed on land owned by Catherine Pimm. Eight were killed on Bureau of Land Management property, four on U.S. Forest Service property, three on property of Robert Lemm and three on Hawn’s ranch.”
ikka caught the same thing I did reading this article.
Although I can sympathize with Hawn, having his property destroyed by someone else’s animals, he was willing to break the law.
You can’t legally go onto federal property and shoot animals. Or someone else’s property, without permission of the landowner (or feds).
Thanks.
Aztlan
Another inconvenient fact :
— 14 were killed on land owned by Catherine Pimm.
Eight were killed on Bureau of Land Management property, four on U.S. Forest Service property, three on property of Robert Lemm and three on Hawn’s ranch
No mention of bison.
A “lawful” fence is defined as a “well constructed three barbed wire fence with substantial posts set at a distance of approximately 20 feet apart, and sufficient to turn ordinary horses and cattle, with all gates equally as good as the fence, or any other fence of like efficiency.”
Bison walk through 5 wire fences as if they don’t exist.
Yep, I agree with that. The guy is probably going to jail for shooting the animals on land other than his, especially the BLM land. Still, this open range requirement that you are responsible for other folks animals staying off your land instead of the owner themselves is a remnant of the notion that the range belongs to everyone (and by extension, no one) and is a socialist view of property rights.
I’ve never seen it written anywhere if these bison were wounded and not killed on Hawns property. That might account for them dying on the other property.
Take a glance at #45
You can build a fence that will keep buffalo in...or out. A buffalo fence needs to be higher (like 8 feet or so) and stronger than a cattle fence.
There’s no question you can build a fence sufficient to contain Bison. I’ve seen one in Missouri and it was much stronger than any cattle fence and looked exactly as you describe it. My problem with this is that the owner of the Bison is not responsible for building that fence but instead his neighbors are. Why should someone who does not own the animals and stands to realize no financial gain from them be responsible for insuring they are adequately contained? It’s a ridiculous law and a remnant of a socialist type belief that the land belongs to everyone.
That’s a good question B4. I live in the east, and we don’t have open range laws here. I did encounter cows wandering in the road in Louisiana when I lived there. My sis lived in the sticks and had neighbors that let their cows roam.
I have not given the OR laws much thought, so am not qualified to speak on that. I just know if any of these animals were shot on federal property, someone is in trouble.
Could be these animals were wounded, then wandered onto federal property, but I would think those shooters (they are not hunters) would want to recover the bison if they were shot for meat. I assume they used scopes, and would know the animal bolted if wounded, would try to recover them.
While I agree that he deserves what he gets, mostly because he had the Bison shot on others land and not his, the law is one of those that makes you shake your head. Kind of like the SC decision that it was OK for govts., state or local, to take someones land just because they think they can generate more tax revenue from a promised development. Just because it’s the law doesn’t make it right.
Mr. Hawn has 32 criminal charges against him... The property Mr. Hawn owns isn’t used as a ranch; it’s just a vacation area. In the first place, a rancher doesn’t hate animals and KILL them!
There isn’t any one that knows that the buffalo did any damage to anything; they’re just guessing.
It could have been a herd of elk that stays in that area; or even Hawn’s horses rubbing on his solar panels and TV dishes could have been the problem.
Vaughn Downare
http://www.theflume.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=2&ArticleID=5474&TM=74279.37
In Park County, how the animals died, and what happened to their corpses, caused some of the greatest outrage. The bison were shot and left to rot where they fell: Experts from the Colorado Department of Agriculture said they may have lain dead for more than three weeks.
Carcasses were found on two neighboring ranches but also on U.S. Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management property.
The problem for Hawn is that just because the bison were on his property does not mean he had any rights to them. Since the 1880s, Colorado has had open range ordinances, whereby livestock can roam freely and it’s up to landowners to fence them out.
http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/story?oid=oid%3A627445
That is one problem. He sure had no rights to the ones that weren't on his property. The guy from Texas is, how do they say, all hat and no cattle. He is probably used to being a big shot, but he might be surprised at the way things work in Colorado.
The feds may have something to say before this is all over.
Well if you have to hypothesize an elephant ranch in Colorado, I think the location of the folly is clear. :)
These laws don't have to appeal to every commenter on the internet with an abstract idea of justice. They've grown up out of a long series of trial and error and shouldn't be rejected at first look.
Animals don't recognize property rights or fences, and so aren't culpable for property rights violations.
Since the art of cow or buffalo training is undeveloped, if not impossible, the animal's owner has limited control himself. If he has to ensure total control of his herd, the costs of meat will be unaffordable.
While it seems that this landowner is unduly burdened by this law, he benefits equally if his own herd breaks into somebody else's land.
There's law, and there's being a good neighbor. Even with the law on his side, a good neighbor would have taken steps to keep his animals from crossing over onto his neigbor's property, especially since he knew that they had done damage before.
Oh please, you’re giving me a hernia I’m laughing so hard! My folks own some land and cattle in Oklahoma and I was raised on a farm so don’t give me BS about animal control and the cost of meat. If my folks cows get out the knock on the door isn’t for the person who’s land has been invaded but theirs. That’s why they expend considerable time and effort on their fences. And don’t tell me cows can’t be trained dumb ox. Ask any dairy farmer. As for buffaloe (bison) if you want to have a herd you should be responsible for their upkeep (including fences) and not your neighbor.
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