GOP grassroots on fire

"rue the choice"

I doubt it. From listening to comments from people on a local talk show, it sounds like many indecisive or even leaning-towards-Obama people are now favoring Palin. Remember most average Dems share many values with Republicans. Many Dems around my part of the country (western Wisconsin) are religious, socially conservative, and BIG!!! gun enthusiasts.

"keep getting clobbered"

Really? How does that explain the last twenty of twenty-eight years with Republicans in the White House?

Regan Democrats?

I fear this is going to become a loose lose brain fart. What do rats have in common with Donald Regan.

NUTS!

I think you missed their point.

You have to see the context. Assuming that the country is roughly 1/3 among left, middle, and right, an election is won by the middle only if the candidate already captures the base. Until the selection of Palin, McCain didn't do bad on the middle, but he was still lacking on his own base, the right. Now, he covers both.

"keep getting clobbered" Really? How does that explain the last twenty of twenty-eight years with Republicans in the White House

We are talking more about conservatives than Republicans. What have we achieved in the last 30 years. Not much. Yes we won the cold war, but that was not just a conservative victory, it was a victory across the board. We had the help of our allies and what was once a sane Democratic Party (Truman, JKF).
We have taxes at a reasonable rate but we have not put a halt to the spending and the growth of government. Yes we grew slower than what we would have but is that a real conservative accomplishment?
Immigration is a flat out disaster at every level. No more need be said about that. I could go on but what's the point. We haven't advanced many true conservative principles.
As far as abortion goes, we haven't repealed Rowe v. Wade and it doesn't look like we will anytime soon if ever. So the Welfare State we created in the early part of the 20Th Century continues to grow and we can't seem to stop it. I don't care if the occupant of the White House is a Republican the growth and power of government just seems to proceed. We have fought a good rear guard action but we must face that fact that we are losing That's what I meant when I said we were getting clobbered.

I like your dialog there. I would hope that she is briefed on a couple of things before her debate as I assume the questioners (likely MSM) will try to trip her up and show her lack of knowledge on foreign affairs.
The first are foreign countries and their leaders and issues vis-à-vis the US.
The second is a history of Biden and his important positions, speeches and hearings on foreign affairs so as to show him she too knows what she is talking about and to challenge him if the situation arises.

Good points. I think she’s a quick read having been in TV journalism.

I was watching the live feeds today. Mac and Sarah in Penn and Obama Biden in Ohio...

It was strikingly dis similar...

Penn... Up beat... Pos... not one neg mention of the opponent... Kudos to Hillary... Sarah built up Mac....and told us about herself. Talked about our country... etc.

contrast with...

Ohio...

Bloveeeateing Biden...(who was obviously registering above .05 alcohol...second time now... you could see the look of exaspiration on Obama’s face as if he were saying...”God, why did “we” pick this guy...?) for about 30 minutes on what a scoundrel Bush and McCain...are...Talking about himself...and I think if I’m not mistakin drawing from the plagierism...of the past ....

THen “finally” introducing Obama...

The contrast was monumental.... One of pos and one of negative...

If this country picks them...then something is really wrong here...and it’s the start of the fall of the roman empire...

They quote Pollster Stan Greenberg on votes for Kennedy Vs Reagan as proof that it was the Democrats that had deserted their workiing class base. Kennedy was CATHOLIC and very anti abortion. Kennedy was not pro gun control. Do not confuse JFK with TEDDY. Ted and JFK shared very few views on much of anything.

D you think that more Democrats voted for Reagan in 1984 because Ron fired striking union workers? Reagan fired the striking Flight Controllers Union members in 1981? Is that why so many union members voted for Reagan in 1984?

Or Perhaps They voted for Reagan becuase he wanted any Mexican citizen to be able to come to the US to live and work as long as they wanted. Reagan wanted only a Mexican birth certificate to be required to come to the USA to stay and work. Show their mexican birth certificate and they could not be an illegal alien. Even the Democrats in congress would not go along with Reagan on that issue.

Or perhaps those Reagan Democrats voted for Reagan because he cut Capital Gains taxes and cut the top rate paid by the richest Americans from 70 to 36 percent.

Reagan Democrats voted for Reagan on MORAL Issues. The media was so surprised to find in exit polls that many of the hourly Union workers who voted for Reagan in 1980 disagreed with his economic policies but voted for him anyway. The pollsters and media said it was the force of the GREAT COMMUNICATORS personality that got him those votes. Reagan on the other hand figured it was abortion and gun positions that got him those votes.

I knew Reagans stump speech to Michigan, Pennsylvainia, and Ohio hourly workers so well that I used to imitate Reagan giving his speech for the amusement of my fellow reporters.

At the end of August in 1980 Reagan was 25 points behind Carter in the polls and Carter was even refusing to debate Reagan. Reagan was 15 points behind Carter at the start of October. Do you really think the Democrat voters looked up in the final 2 weeks before the election and decided that the Democrats had abandoned them on economic policies?

It was Reagan who attracted those voters NOT CARTER THAT LOST THEM.

Greenberg had to believe that white working class Democrats did not know they had been abandoned by the Democraic party in June, July, August, or September in 1980. In June, Carter had been 30 points ahead of Reagan. But come October, the so called Reagan Democrats had to come to the conclusion that the Democratic party had deserted them? That is not the case.

And Republican house and Senate members took a big hit from those same Reagan Democrats in 1982 when Republicans lost both house and Senate Seats.

Back then the conventional wisdom was it was good to be pro abortion and pro gun control.

Other people may have had ideas of who the Reagan Democrats were, but Reagan knew their two main issues were abortion and gun control.

Not much has changed.If you bother to read what Obama has said about working class Democrats in Pennsylvania.

Obama made the comments about religion and gun control because the polls showed he was not going to get White Working Class DEMOCRAT VOTES IN THE Democratic PRIMARY.

The votes Obama was not getting and the votes McCain will get are the pro gun and anti abortion Democrat votes.

The latest polls show that McCain will get 12 percent of the Democrat vote and Obama will NOT GET 23 percent of Democrat votes. 11 of the 23 percent may not vote for McCain but they swear they are not voting for Obama under any circumstances.

How many stories have you seen where those Democrat voters are called WORKING CLASS WHITE VOTERS. And even Obama knows they CLING TO THEIR RELIGION AND GUNS.

It could not be Atheist DEMOCRATS that cling to their religion.. NOW Could it? IT IS EVANGELICALS. REAGAN GOT SOME OF THEM IN 1980 and nearly all of them in 1984. McCain will get them all in 2008 and he can thank his VP nominee for that situation.

McCain is one of brightest politicians I have observed. For months the Reagan Democrats had been saying that if McCain was really on their side he would choose a pro live VP. McCain put out rumors that it would be Lieberman, Rangel and even did a trial balloon about what people thought of a pro abortion VP. The more he did that the more the Conservative base and the Reagan democrats said... I'd vote for him if he appointed a pro live VP. But he is not going to do it.

He kept suspense up until Friday morning. Then he did exactly what the reluctant base and the Reagan Democrats wanted him to do. What they said their vote hinged on.

And they were left with the view that McCain is exactly the man they want to be president. NOT BECAUSE Of the person he appointed. But because of what it says about McCain and abortion and gun control.

The same type of people who thought Reagan was a blitering idiot for being anti abortion in 1980 think McCain is same in 2008.

WE'll find out on election day.

A CNN poll from MI the other day had McCain +18 in Macomb and Oakland counties combined

Bush was a combined +1 in 2004, and the GOP lost them in 2000, 1996 and 1992.

We probably havent polled that high in 20 yrs or more

If McCain is anywhere close to + 18 in the birthplace of Reagan dems, Nov 4 will be a very good day