Posted on 08/28/2008 12:48:04 PM PDT by jazusamo
Amid the cascade of words pouring out of Denver this week, none may have more long-term punch than the bubbly Mile High musings of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Sunday's "Meet the Press." Tom Brokaw had asked about Barack Obama saying that deciding when life begins was "above my pay grade." Pelosi showcased the Peter Principle in action. It says that people rise to the level of their incompetence. Her answer showed that the principle has nothing to do with Saint Peter.
"I would say that as an ardent, practicing Catholic, this is an issue that I have studied for a long time. And what I know is, over the centuries, the doctors of the church have not been able to make that definition. . . . We don't know. . . . And so I don't think anybody can tell you when life begins, human life begins."
How bad was it? Her pontifications left Brokaw as dumbstruck as a host can appear at such times. He noted her church believes life begins at conception. "I understand," she said. "And this is, like, maybe 50 years or something like that. So again, over the history of the church, this is an issue of controversy. But it is . . . also true that God has given us . . . a free will and a responsibility to answer for our actions."
How bad was it? Catholic leaders in Washington, D.C., New York and Denver sternly corrected her valley girl pronouncement. Like, maybe 50 years or something like that . . . free will -- yeah, whatever.
It's one thing for a politico to bring up the teachings of her church on an issue. Sometimes it's a risky thing in a nation built on the separation of church and state; sometimes it's an altogether legitimate thing. But it's another thing for someone to call herself an ardent, practicing Catholic and then make a holy hash of her church's teaching on abortion.
"Ardent, practicing Catholics will quickly learn from the historical record that from apostolic times, the Christian tradition overwhelmingly held that abortion was grievously evil," Denver Archbishop Charles Chaput stated. "Some of the Early Fathers held that abortion was homicide; others that it was tantamount to homicide; and various scholars theorized about when and how the unborn child might be animated or 'ensouled.' But none diminished the unique evil of abortion as an attack on life itself . . . ."
He continued: "It is always gravely evil, and so are the evasions employed to justify it. Catholics who make excuses for it -- whether they're famous or not -- fool only themselves and abuse the fidelity of those Catholics who do sincerely seek to follow the Gospel and live their Catholic faith."
It hardly requires a prelate's instruction for Catholics to learn what the church actually teaches. It's right in the Catholic Church's catechism: "Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception . . . . Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable."
Pelosi must have been on a Rocky Mountain high Sunday. She was operating way above her pay grade.
There's a term for Roman Catholics who pick and choose what non-negotiable church teachings to follow: "Cafeteria Catholics." The modern Democratic Party presents a special temptation for Catholic politicians and voters alike, since the right to an abortion has become the party's holy grail. The result is lots of rationalizing or a willful ignorance of their church's position. But Pelosi has hurled herself into a whole new realm. She combined lame rationalization of her own position with an ignorance of the church's position that, sadly, didn't seem willful.
This teachable moment for the Catholic Church couldn't come at a worse moment for Democrats. As they reach out to working-class Catholics, Pelosi's remarks highlight the party's abortion problem. Its support for unchecked abortion -- and a presidential candidate more radical than abortion-rights groups -- doesn't make this easy. Case in point: Before Pelosi prompted Chaput's rejoinder, the Denver archbishop had said that Sen. Joe Biden should avoid taking communion because of the Catholic vice presidential pick's pro-choice stand on abortion.
Unlike Catholic teaching on capital punishment or papal statements on the Iraq war, you see, the church's ancient position on abortion isn't something Catholics are free to ignore. Even ardent, practicing Catholics. Their only choice: Practice more.
It would be great if she keeps running her mouth right up to the election, she might just might talk herself out of the Speakers job.
There's an old saying down in my neck of the woods that goes "even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then", and for once Pelosi is absolutely right. God did give us a free will, and He holds us responsible for how we use that freedom.
But it's also true that America will pay a terrible price for using the free will that God gave us to allow hired killers, aka abortion providers, to murder innocent human beings whether in the womb or after they're born. Both Pelosi and Obama want to allow unwanted babies to be killed even when the hired killers fail to kill them in the womb and they're born alive, anyone want to make a guess on how God feels about that?
Monsters is a good description of them and it’s evident that Pelosi and those like her in the Dem party are willing to accept those monsters for political gain, in so doing it makes them monsters also.
Well said, Mrs. D. I believe it’s the ultimate in cherry picking.
I read where a Cardinal and two Archbishops have spoken out against Pelosi but Archbishop Niederauer, her Archbishop, hasn’t spoken out against her because he hasn’t sat down with her and spoken to her face to face.
I wonder how many of the others have had a sit down with her?
Yes, and if she and those women truly believe that they have no place in the Catholic church, IMO.
As Peggy Noonan put it in an essay by the same name, they are all “In Love with Death”.
Hello back atcha. Looks like we’re bot h’old-timers’ here. Been busy. Now, not so much. Looking to get busy again...
I know you and I don't have to guess!
Wonderful headline!
I got kicked out of the Catholic church for being pregnant at 16. I did not have an abortion, like a lot of the other girls in the parish who got pregnant did.
And the Catholic church gives Nancy Pelosi a pass?
I don’t know if anyone has posted it, since FR tends to eat our “old friends” lately, But Fox News reported on the pro life demonstration in Denver AND Neil Cavuto had Apb Chaput on on one segment today. In the interest of being straightforward, Neil did state that he was a Catholic himself. The Archbishop restated Catholic teaching and spoke both of Pelosi and Biden in this particular instance of mortal sin and self-delusion in both cases in their support of abortion.
It is not canonically possible for a person of any age or condition to be "kicked out of the church" for being pregnant. If somebody TOLD you you were being kicked out of the Church, they were lying to you.
I am very serious about this. Anyone saying you were excluded from the Church was violating your Baptismal rights as a Catholic, pronouncing an erroneous judgment in terms of canon Law, and and gravely sinning against justice and charity.
How long ago did this happen to you? Who did this to you? Did you not question this? Please consider this sincerely and answer this: you have been cruelly and seriously misled.
**There’s a term for Roman Catholics who pick and choose what non-negotiable church teachings to follow: “Cafeteria Catholics.” **
Mzzz. Nancy, the Cafeteria is closed!
In the Oregonian! Wow!
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.
I got kicked out of the Catholic church for being pregnant at 16.You got lied to. Our Lord loves you and your child. Whatever fool lied to you did you a grave harm. Come home, please.
“It is not canonically possible for a person of any age or condition to be “kicked out of the church” for being pregnant. If somebody TOLD you you were being kicked out of the Church, they were lying to you.
I am very serious about this. Anyone saying you were excluded from the Church was violating your Baptismal rights as a Catholic, pronouncing an erroneous judgment in terms of canon Law, and and gravely sinning against justice and charity.
How long ago did this happen to you? Who did this to you? Did you not question this? Please consider this sincerely and answer this: you have been cruelly and seriously misled.”
Thank you for your concern, I mean that. I’m not surprised I was lied to. It wasn’t the only time I, or my family, was lied to by our local diocese. The first time was with the child molesting priest who no one would do anything about. I believe you when you say they were gravely sinning against justice. Our diocese was, and probably still is, rotten to the core.
The problems with a priest from a neighboring parish began in 1975 (molesting me and some other girls). I was kicked out in 1976 by the priest of our parish. I was also kicked out of catechism, in front of the whole class. A lot of people in our parish didn’t agree and said what he did was wrong.
Looking back I can see I was cruelly mislead. But you know what? I left and got saved in a Christian church.
All this hoopla going on with the Catholic church tolerating people like Pelosi and Biden and their idiotic comments is just more of the same corruption.
But I don’t think all dioceses are like the one I grew up in. My husband grew up Catholic, went to Catholic schools and almost became a priest, and he’s horrified by my experience. Also, the same problems can be seen anywhere there are large religious organizations. I would just like to see the Catholic church stop tolerating such evil.
That the essence of it. Humans are fungible and ultimately disposable “assets”.Bingo.
Who lives, who dies. That’s the power they seek.Exactly.
They are all monsters, monsters from the deepest dark heart of of our existence and history is replete with the outcomes and the evidence of their sick Utopian ideas: slaughter and mass murder on a scale that beggars the imagination.Undeniably true.
History also tells us what we must do to deal with them.The hard to bear truth. Well said. Really well said.
“You got lied to. Our Lord loves you and your child. Whatever fool lied to you did you a grave harm. Come home, please. “
Thank you, I know the Lord loves me and my family. We love him, too. Yes, I was done great harm, but by God’s mercy and grace I survived. And the Lord used this tragic event to see me born again. I’m already home in the Body of Christ. Thank you for your concern.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.