Posted on 08/26/2008 6:49:35 AM PDT by RedRover
Riverside, California--The first witness with personal knowledge of what allegedly happened at Fallujah, Iraq in 2004 is expected to testify today against his former squad leader in US District Court.
Former Lance Corporal Corey Carlisle was a Mormon missionary working in Indiana last year when he told a Naval Criminal Investigative Service investigator he heard and saw events that indicated several of his squad mates killed enemy prisoners in the opening hours of the battle.
Carlisle told NCIS Special Agent Mark O Fox that his former squad leader Sgt. Jose L. Nazario, his fire team leader Cpl. Ryan Weemer, and an attached Marine corporal from the unit’s Weapons Platoon named Cpl. Jermaine Nelson killed four prisoners with their personal weapons.
He did not see them do it, Carlisle acknowledged in his statement.
Friday, Nelson and Weemer, now sergeants stationed at Camp Pendleton, took the Fifth and refused to testify in the case. They have been ordered to return to court September 29 where presiding US District Judge Stephan Larson will decide whether to incarcerate them in federal custody for criminal contempt of court.
Both Marines face general court-martials for murder and dereliction of duty. Monday Weemer entered a plea of “not guilty” at his arraignment on the charges. He is accused of killing one of the unknown prisoners with his pistol.
Carlisle was grievously wounded at the iconic Hell House fight four days later and evacuated home. Weemer was shot three times in the same skirmish, where Nazario was trapped for 90 minutes under the guns of fanatical foreign fighters and Nelson was outside trying to get in.
Two Marines earned Navy Crosses during the legendary fight that is already inscribed in the colorful annals of Marine Corps lore. The battle left one Marine dead and 10 wounded.
Carlisle, 26, was first interviewed in Elkhart, Indiana in the winter of 2007 and again in Lawrence, Indiana in the spring when he gave Fox a recorded statement intended to corroborate the fast fading case against Nazario.
He told Fox that after unsuccessfully trying to blow open the front gate of a substantial concrete house being used as a fighting position his squad from 3rd Platoon, Kilo Company, 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines found an entrance in the back.
Carlisle said he led Weemer, Nazario, Nelson, and two other Marines through the back door to discover four insurgents sitting unarmed on the floor.
One of them was older than the other three, a man with a white beard, he said. The other three prisoners were younger – military aged men.
On Friday the officer who commanded the Marines at Fallujah said the insurgents frequently used four-man “cells” led by an older man as typical fighting formation.
Carlisle told Fox that after a moment watching Nelson interrogating the prisoners, Nazario ordered him to team up with LCpl James Prentice and search the rest of the house, he said.
Prentice is also expected to be called as a government witness.
Prentice discovered expended AK-47 rounds on the roof and they found an unloaded AK-47 in an office, Carlisle said. They had just discovered another unloaded AK-47 secreted between two rugs in what became known as the “rug room” when Carlisle heard the first killing shot. It was from a 9mm pistol, he told Fox.
“I was actually re-searching the rug room, and that’s when I heard the first gunshot and I came to find out what happened,” Carlisle said.
Fox: Okay, and what did you see when you came out?
Carlisle: What I remember is that when I came out I saw Corporal Weemer in the kitchen and there was a body laying down as far as I could see the feet.
Fox: Okay, that was the first body you saw?
Carlisle: Yes, that was the first body I saw….He was the older man....
Weemer was standing over him with his pistol in his hand. The dead combatant was the same man Carlisle had seen Nazario and Nelson interrogating when he first entered the house.
Much of the man’s head was missing, Carlisle said.
“What kind of weapon did Weemer have?” Fox asked.
Carlisle: He shot him with his 9 mil [Beretta].
Fox: How do you know that?
Carlisle: The sound and he had the 9-millimeter in his hand.
Upon further questioning Carlisle reveals that Weemer told him the dead man had made a try for his pistol.
Carlisle: I was asking questions about as far as what had happened. And he [Weemer] had made something like “he went for a weapon” or “he went for my gun,” something like that.
Meanwhile Nazario and Nelson were in the adjacent “living room” with the three surviving prisoners, Carlisle said. Along with Prentice, he confronted Nazario.
Carlisle said he was concerned about the situation and wanted to know what was happening.
Carlisle: We came over and talked to Sgt. Nazario. We went over there to find out what was going on and that’s when we saw the three of them lined up in the living room.
Fox: Was anything said?
Carlisle: Something along the lines of them asking Prentice if he wanted to participate in shooting one of them. At that time, Prentice was pretty livid towards the fact that previous of this Lance Corporal [Juan] Segura had just died, we had just found out – barely – that he didn’t make it, so he was pretty ticked off. So at the time he wanted to shoot one of them so… and I wasn’t sure what was going on in the confusion so I started pushing him out and told him that he didn’t want to.
Fox: Prentice?
Carlisle: Yes, I told Prentice that he didn’t want to do that.
Prentice and Carlisle left the living room seeking a way out of the house. They went to the front door first, but it was locked, Carlisle added. About that time they heard the first of a series of shots.
Carlisle: As soon as we got to the front door there was a shot. It was my suspicion it was Sgt. Nazario that shot one of the individuals. All three of them were shot. Between intervals of, I don’t know, Sgt. Nazario – I don’t know - those two individuals were in the room. The first shot came when I was going to the front door. And then I turned around to get out of there and we met up with Weemer.
Fox: When you turned around did – did you see, look into the living room?
Carlisle: Umm yes, there was one individual down and the other two – I do remember the individual’s faces. Umm, they were, they had just seen their buddy get shot and their faces were not exactly - pretty somber. I saw that, and as soon as I saw that I still knew I needed to get out of there so I started heading for the back door and then on the way to the back door Cpl. Weemer then told us we needed to get out of here and so all three of our fire team left the back door. Now, between, I was talking to Cpl. Weemer and the back door there was two shots. One when I was talking to Cpl. Weemer and then one right as we started to walk out the back door.
While riding in a Humvee back to their firm base after the incident Carlisle claimed Weemer told him that the order to execute the prisoners came from higher ups on the radio.
Witness allegations that Nazario received orders to execute the prisoners from superiors over his radio were the centerpiece of the government’s allegations when the case was presented to the federal Grand Jury that indicted Nazario.
Curiously, the matter has been ignored since the case went to trial and wasn’t even mention in the government’s opening arguments.
The veracity of the alleged orders has been questioned by several witnesses –including the platoon radio operator who said it never happened. Even those who say they knew Nazario received radioed orders cannot agree how and when he received them, or who gave them.
Nazario denies the incident happened at all.
On Friday Major Timothy Jent, a captain and commanding officer of Kilo Company at Fallujah, testified he knew nothing about prisoners being taken by anyone in Kilo company until much later in the battle.
Upon seeing Nazario in the courtroom hallway last Thursday morning he warmly greeted his former squad leader and gave him a comradely hug before quickly parting company to avoid the appearance of impropriety.
During the opening hours of the battle on November 9, Jent was all over the battlefield, according to After Action Reports and numerous other internal documents detailing the battle. His commanding officer Lt. Col Willard Buhl, now a colonel at the Pentagon, later cited Jent for his brilliant leadership on November 9 when the alleged killings occurred.
On 09 November while elements of Company K were stopped along Phase Line Isaac waiting to push west along Phase Line Donna, the Headquarters Element received three accurate enemy 82-millimeter mortar rounds. One of the rounds landed directly in front of the company commander’s vehicle, severely wounding two Marines. Ignoring his own personal safety, Captain Jent tended to one of the wounded Marines, helped him into the back of the vehicle, and bandaged the severe shrapnel wounds on his legs. Additionally, Captain Jent personally organized a casualty evacuation for the wounded Marines, ensuring their timely transport to the Battalion Aid Station for critical medical treatment.
Like Jent, Jesse Grapes, now a captain in the Marine Corps reserves, and numerous other battalion, company, and platoon senior marines, Buhl has denied any knowledge of the alleged executions.
Buhl, Grapes, and several other senior Marines who would have had knowledge of the alleged incident by virtue of their positions and responsibilities, were either subpoenaed and then not called to testify by the government or ignored.
The government has no corroborating physical evidence, or identification of the alleged victims, to demonstrate that the incident ever occurred.
Somebody call John Murtha as a witness. Apparently, he has solid reasons for his slanderous accusations and therefore he should be a material witness for the prosecution.
“He did not see them do it, Carlisle acknowledged”
So his testimony is worth......?
Nada. If he's the best the prosecution has, this thing is over.
>>Much of the man’s head was missing, Carlisle said.
“What kind of weapon did Weemer have?” Fox asked.
Carlisle: He shot him with his 9 mil [Beretta].<<
With a 9 mm, much of the man’s head was missing? Not likely.
There is only one question that I’d ask Carlisle.
“Did you see Sgt Nazario kill anyone?”
Perhaps I’d add: “Did you see Sgt Nazario even fire his weapon near the prisoners?”
Another: “Did you see anyone kill anyone?”
The storyline makes it clear that anyone inside that house had within minutes been actively engaged in trying to kill Americans, and their disposition was NOT one of prisoners of war.
They were attempting to fool the squad into believing they were non-combatants. Who knows what communication they had just made to other insurgents prior to the squad entering that building.
Nazario said that it never happened. I wonder if he means the entire event, or if he means only the killing of prisoners.
Any movement on the part of any of those insurgents could have been a pre-arranged signal. Any squad leaving that building could have meant pre-notified insurgents were to move into the building and free anyone left manacled. Any squad leaving that building with prisoners was to be tracked and killed now that the squad had been divided into prisoner guards moving to the rear and fire team moving forward.
It’s clear those men were fighters. The discharged weapons and other weapons prove that.
The only safe harbor for that squad was to move out of that building in force.
This sounds really jumbled though.
If some say there was a communication with higher, and the government insisted that was the reason for the prosecution, and now they’re not even pursuing it, then we’re left to conclude there was no communication because too many dispute it, most importantly, the radio operator.
If that story is false, then what other parts of the story are probably false. There can be no conclusion drawn, and Nazario’s version is as likely as anyone elses.
Not one person is testifying they saw him kill anyone.
So according to LCpl Carlisle, this concrete house was being used as a fighting position. After being unable to blow open the front, they go in the back and find 4 people (a typical insurgent fighting formation). They found expended AK-47 shells on the roof, an unloaded AK47 in one room, two more AK’s in a rug room.
Ummmm, I’d say these guys were insurgents who had fired on US Marines. They were trying to play the “Beat the Marines using their ROE’s”. They lost.
Now if this alleged incident had happened a couple/few days later in the battle of Fallujah, the Marines would have been within (or close enough to) acceptable ROE criteria. So, how many Marines had to die/get wounded to loosen up the ROE’s? Would this group of Marines have ever been charged if this alleged incident had happened a few days later in the battle?
I hope the Judge has the wisdom of Solomon.
Would someone please post the website where we can make donations to their defense.
Agree, Red.
Think about this as allegedly happening in an American city 3 or 4 years ago between members of a gang or a drug deal gone bad and one or two people came forward and told this story.
I don't believe there's an investigator or a prosecutor in the country that would have taken this to a Grand Jury or preferred charges for a prosecution. If they had have I'm sure a judge would have thrown it out of court. That's my thought on it.
Our Justice Dept. More evidence of what a charming president we have in the Oval Office. Bush should have pardoned these marines on day one, while suggesting that Murtha go blank himself. But naturally our president folds up, says nothing and allows marines, border guards and anyone else defending this nation to be given over to the tender mercies of the leftist-run DOJ. Bush made two good decisions in 8 years—Roberts and Alito. And he had to be forced into them at that!
These were out of uniform fighters trying to pass as non-combatants. They fall under the heading of spys and sabotures and can be summarily shot at will...
Concur, Chaplain; thanks for your thoughts.
This is a hearsay case that never should have been brought to court; the Judge is a freaking idiot for not tossing it and penalizing the prosecutors and their minions.
You posted the essentials. There's more information HERE and in a pdf HERE
So Carlisle personally established the point of ingress/egress
Prentice and Carlisle left the living room seeking a way out of the house. They went to the front door first, but it was locked, Carlisle added. About that time they heard the first of a series of shots
Carlisle can't find his way out of the house? Why not leave through the same door he safely entered? I would think any new door would present a new challenge.
So if Carlisle isn't involved, where is he during the alleged executions?
“I was actually re-searching the rug room, and that’s when I heard the first gunshot and I came to find out what happened,” Carlisle said.
This testimony sounds contrived. Carlisle claims Nazario asked Prentice if he wanted to shoot one (and claims he had to urge Prentice not to) - why wouldn't Carlisle get the same offer?
Seems Carlisle is the only one in that house that isn't bent on killing "docile prisoners of war" according to Carlisle.
We know that Fox is dangling a murder charge over Nelson's head, a charge apparently so weak that the government will drop the whole thing if he just testifies that one of his buddies murdered someone.
We know this sleazy, despicable tactic is by design meant to generate confessions that someone else did something bad. It is a scare tactic used solely to score a conviction. It offers nothing in the way of truth and impedes justice.
I strongly suspect Fox of dangling the same rancid offer over Carlisle's head, and his garbled testimony lends that suspicion some footing.
Not to excuse Bush, but if he had pardoned anyone, the leftest and the rest of the world would have said he pardoned guilty men. Who do you think the press would support? Plus, if he had said ANYTHING, that would be an example of command influence, which is wrong for or against. These men are getting the shaft, no matter which way the trial ends, and until we get patriots leading our country again, they will not be the last. In my 22 years in the Corps (mustang, 03) it was always mission and you men, from fire team leader up. It seems like field grade officers have forgotten that. Semper Fi, and I mean it !
Got a quick lunchtime update.
Carlisle’s testimony, so far, is as we reported it would be, right down the line.
The only surprise is that the prosecution produced photos of the house (taken by NCIS investigators). Carlisle was asked, “Is this the room where you saw the men?” “Yes.” “Is this where you saw Weemer standing?” “Yes.”
There’ll be more testimony from Carlisle this afternoon.
The only other witness this morning was a warrant officer who testified about the procedures for processing prisoners.
BTW, some courtroom observers think the jury will get the case Thursday.
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