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1 posted on 08/25/2008 1:08:29 PM PDT by lizol
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To: lizol
It fits in with my thought. Dissolve NATO and make the Europeans responsible for their own defense.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

2 posted on 08/25/2008 1:14:55 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: voteNRA; valkyry1; Monkey Face; MajorChaos; rrstar96; Lorianne; ZULU; bayouranger; Grimmy; ...
Eastern European ping list


FRmail me to be added or removed from this Eastern European ping list

3 posted on 08/25/2008 1:21:29 PM PDT by lizol
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To: lizol
As Poland's foreign minister, Radek Sikorski, says, "Parchments and treaties are all very well, but we have a history in Poland of fighting alone and being left to our own devices by our allies."

Not a big student of Polish military history, but Jon Slobieski saved Western Civ's butt from the muzzies at the Battle of Vienna-only to be carved up by "allies" a few years later.

Likewise, Pilsudski (sp?) stopped the advance of communism in the 1920s by stopping the Russkies. I think the battle was the "Miracle at Vistula". Didn't work out too well for them. We supposedly went to war to stop the Nazis from expanding but Poland was also invaded by the Soviets. We stopped the Nazis but left the Poles to suffer at the hands of the Soviets. Patton was right-we should have pushed the Russians back while we were there.

4 posted on 08/25/2008 1:42:41 PM PDT by MattinNJ (I would really, really love to depose Obama.)
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To: lizol

During the Cold War, West Germany had a rather large armed force, and it was backed by a quarter of a million US troops based in Germany itself.

Since the Soviets had a force several times larger, at least in theory, this force was viewed as a trip wire that could trigger the use of nuclear force.

If Poland seriously sees itself at risk, along with Ukraine, the two of them must prepare a force sufficient to stop the Red Army themselves. It is doubtful that the US is going to put 250,000 troops in Poland, it no longer has them. And deploying a force in the east without western European backing is going to be problematic... and western Europe only barely held together as an alliance when they were themselves at risk; they are not going to back eastern Europe.

But if there is any hope of repelling a serious Soviet attack, Poland Ukraine and the US have to seriously re-think the size of their current armed forces. The US would provide certain kinds of support under fire, but it would be politically difficult to deploy troops in large numbers if the Soviets decided to march for real. Poland and Ukraine have to be able to hold the line while the ditherers dither.

If you are seriously outnumbered, and you are, you have to build a high-tech high-speed force based on the Israeli and American models. You have to be prepared to kill tanks by the hundreds, and this capability has to be available at the sargent’s level. You have to be able to deny air cover to the enemy, and this means an effective air wing of your own, and plenty of shoulder-fired missiles capable of knocking down jet aircraft, and these need to be widely available. You need high-tech high-speed tank killers that can outrun and outshoot anything the Russians have, and if they get better, you have to get way better.


5 posted on 08/25/2008 1:48:42 PM PDT by marron
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To: lizol

It was never about defending Poland, it was about poking a finger in a big, fat Russian eye.


6 posted on 08/25/2008 1:50:18 PM PDT by Bob J (For every 1000 hacking at the branches of evil, one strikes at it's root.)
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To: lizol

I am sure that everyone together can put Russia back in her hole to rethink her notions of being so powerful.


7 posted on 08/25/2008 1:51:58 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: lizol

8 posted on 08/25/2008 1:56:45 PM PDT by dfwgator ( This tag blank until football season.)
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To: lizol

Hopefully the rest of the Eastern Block Nations and the Soviet breakaway States will adopt this line of thinking.


10 posted on 08/25/2008 3:43:03 PM PDT by valkyry1
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To: lizol
This is one of 2 things I hold against Georgia in the current conflict. I cannot fathom how they would not have been spending at least to 4 to 5% of GDP on their military. (The other thing is the complete lack of forsight in retaliating to "Ossetian" attacks and not expecting the already mobilized Russians to invade)
Likewise, given the hungry bear, Europe is seriously underspending. Anything less than 3% is a joke at peace, and 5% should be the norm for NATO. Speaking of which, our 4% is pathetic, considering we are at war. We have been wearing out equipment without replacing it, to say nothing of our failure to add a few brigades and our continuing downsizing of the navy.
12 posted on 08/25/2008 4:41:41 PM PDT by rmlew (NYARLATHOTEP / BIDEN'08 . If you don't believe me check out the first's wikipedia page.)
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To: lizol

“Poland and other states should be under no illusion they can count on the U.S. in a crisis. In the past we left Poland, Hungary and Czechoslovakia in the lurch. More recently we haven’t done much to help Georgia.”

Not to mention Vietnam.

When it hasn’t been politically expedient, the US hasn’t always been the most reliable ally.


14 posted on 08/25/2008 8:36:33 PM PDT by DesScorp
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