Buchanan on the Russian invasion of Georgia (Paddy shills for Putin)

Russia Today ^ | August 22, 2008, 15:57

[robert david]

http://www.russiatoday.com/guests/video/1484

[robert david]

Moscow Pat giving aid and comfort to our enemies.

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

Poor Buchanan. So brilliant and yet, well, nevermind.

[nathanbedford]

I question Buchanan's judgment about appearing on Russia today under these circumstances.

But there is much in what he said to agree with.

First, who provoked this war? Buchanan flatly declares that Georgia is at fault. Other reports argue that the Russians cynically provoked George's incursion into its own breakaway provinces with a flood of passports and armed attacks against Georgian nationals and actual bombardments of Georgia proper. What is the case? Even if all of this is the case, did Georgia overreact? If Georgia overreacted, does that justify the Russians who clearly overreacted. What uses all of this analysis anyway? Should we base our foreign policy and risk another Cold War on our assessment of who overreacted?

Second, what role did America play in unleashing Georgia? Was the CIA asleep again? Seems hard to believe that we were not aware of Russia's buildup. What assurances, or rather, what admonitions did we give to the Georgians?

Third, what are our national interests? This is a key question that paleo-conservative's want answered and neoconservatives tend to gloss over. Are 3 million Georgians worth a new Cold War? Incidentally, this is exactly the same question Buchanan has been asking about Israel in the context of the war against terrorism. I think the question is legitimate when asked about both countries.

Fourth, Russia is now an autocracy, Russia has unilaterally invaded another country-which has not been done since the end of the Cold War-does this mean that Russia has global expansionist ambitions, or is Russia merely reacting to developments in its "near abroad" much as we would react (and in fact did react in 1962) in the Caribbean basin? Can I Cold War be avoided if we appease the Russians and withdraw from Ukrainians, the Poles, and the Balts?

I have recently posted a response to Victor David Hanson's remarks and one can see that my belief is pessimistic, that we are facing an entire new world paradigm with Russia embarked on a course of adventurism because it has turned autocratic, not in response to American fifth column activities in its "near abroad."

Nevertheless, we do ourselves a disservice if we fail to deal with the real hard questions raised by Pat Buchanan and only content ourselves with shooting the messenger. That is, after all, what the Libs are doing to Jerome Corsi. Let us not Bork Buchanan.

[kosta50]

Fourth, Russia is now an autocracy, Russia has unilaterally invaded another country-which has not been done since the end of the Cold War

But we have. What does that make us?

[blackbart.223]

"But we have. What does that make us?"

The 800 pound gorilla that better not be f##ked with.

[dirtboy]

Third, what are our national interests?

Georgia is a vital corridor for the US. Look at a map. It is right between Russia and Iran. It allows the US and its allies to fly into Central Asia, and specifically from US bases in Europe to Afghanistan. And it allows Caspian oil to bypass Russia. Russia makes a lot of money transporting oil from former Soviet republics. Creating alternative avenues of transport will reduce their earnings. And oil revenues are Putin's chief means of power.

[1rudeboy]

"But we have. What does that make us?

A target for Kremlin shills (and folks like Buchanan).

[nathanbedford]

I agree. These are the kinds of considerations which ought to shape our policy. I've already posted that it might well be possible to infiltrate enough American military into what remains of Georgia to establish a tripwire against Russian aggression. I had hoped that we might be able to occupy the area of the pipelines. If not, a new pipeline could be constructed capable of handling huge volumes in the area we do protect.

If it comes to the point where we are in a face-off against the Russians, I cannot imagine the Georgians declining our use of their facilities as a launching pad against Iran in the event we need to take out their nukes.

[dirtboy]

I was opposed to Kosovo for three reasons - we sided with the wrong party (the KLA), the Clintonistas were lying to justify action, and, most importantly, there were utterly no vital national security interests at stake. The pipeline they wanted to build through the Balkans was only a means to bypass Turkey, not Russia.

Fast forward nine years. Russia is lying, the US is siding with the right party, and we have two vital national security factors in play. And Pat apparently doesn't know or doesn't care. Either one is damning.

[Sal]

Please see: http://www.washtimes.com/news/2004/oct/29/20041029-110322-3343r/ for factual back up of the following.

First: in answer to your “Should we base our foreign policy and risk another Cold War on our assessment of who overreacted?” Russia didn’t overreact so much as she set up a trap. Russia has long term plans and has been working on them since at least 1998.

Also, Russia has been working against us via Iran. This Georgian “incident” is not an isolated event; it is an event executed to achieve results (our downfall, their reigning supreme) in a long term plan.

Second: WRT the CIA, who can know for sure? How many Mary McCarthys and Valerie Plames are still working there against the interests of the USA.

Remember ValGal was supposed to be monitoring WMD to ensure nonproliferation compliance, yet she did her best to cover up Iraq’s attempts to get yellow cake—the stuff we just had moved from Iraq to Canada for safety (huge numbers of tons of it). Looks to me like they DID get it in huge amounts. Not surprisingly the MSM made little, semi-hidden reports of this one time and dropped the story cold to keep it under the radar for most citizens.

So do we have people in the CIA deliberately keeping OTHER critical information from the elected leaders in our government? IMO the only question is how many of such traitors are there and when will we deal with them?

Third: What are our national interests? ... Are 3 million Georgians worth a new Cold War? While I don’t believe we owe it to the world to defend any/every country that gets in trouble, we damn well better do so for our loyal allies unless we want to be sure we never have allies again.

We are already at war with Islamofascism not by our own choice and Georgia sent 10% of her armed forces to fight side by side with us in Iraq while Russia has collaborated with the Islamofascists against us.

WRT our national interest: is it better to defend our allies against a mutual enemy or to capitulate to that enemy while they obliterate our ally? Then the next ally and the next... If anybody thinks Russia has not decided a long time ago to be our enemy, PLEASE read the link.

Fourth: “...we are facing an entire new world paradigm with Russia embarked on a course of adventurism because it has turned autocratic, not in response to American fifth column activities in its “near abroad.” I totally agree with you.

[duckln]

And oil revenues are Putin's chief means of power

His power is the +75% approval of the Russians themselves.

Russia makes a lot of money transporting oil from former Soviet republics.

And why not. 130 million Russians benefit, versus a splinter group of 4.6 Georgians being bought for pennies on the dollar while international manipulators make a killing.

It allows the US and its allies to fly into Central Asia

Russian gave W permission to use corridors and air fields in the near abroad at the start of 'invasion' on Afghanistan.

[dirtboy]

If Russia didn't have the oil revenues, Putin would not be popular. The only reason he is popular is that the oil revenues have allowed him to rebuild the economy and the military. At the cost of inability to criticize the government, something Pat exercises freely but apparently doesn't care when others are deprived of that right.

Given Putin's tendencies, it is critical for the US to maintain the Georgia corridor, so whatever Russia might have done seven years ago is not relevant now. And your talk of international 'manipulators' is typical Pat silliness. Working stiffs don't create the means to build a pipeline. Corporations typically do.

And I'm quite curious why you put 'invasion' in quotes regarding Afghanistan.

[duckln]

<1>apparently doesn't care when others are deprived of that right.

IMO they are no less deprived than we. During their elections, there's a lot of give and take. Too many here are trying to paint Russia as a cruel Communist country which of course it no longer is.

Given Putin's tendencies...

Like what, what are W's and McCains'? IMO it's final subjugation of Russia at a risk we can't afford. Americans won't stand for it and McCain lessens his chance of winning.

Where do all the revenues go? What does the average Georgian get out of the pipeline? The get 3 battalions trained by us plus death and destruction. They don't need an army, any army is not enough to take on the Russians. If they were smart, they would be neutral.

I guess I used the quotation marks because Russia was still at war with the Afghans by their financing and supporting the Northern Command. We started our effort there on Afghan territory controlled by Russia. That's how I recall we were aided by Russia to both of our benefit.

[SunkenCiv]

Pitchfork Pat ping.

And None Dare Call It Treason - RE: McCain’s foreign policy adviser
Human Events.com | 8/22/08 | Pat Buchanan
Posted on 08/22/2008 5:01:13 PM PDT by dragnet2
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2066432/posts

[SunkenCiv]

Obama Implies the United States to Blame
for Russian Aggression Against Georgia - Video 8/21/08
Blogs for John McCain | August 22, 2008 | brianinmo
Posted on 08/22/2008 7:14:21 AM PDT by blogsforthompson.com
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2066142/posts

Obama Just Gave Putin Justification for Invading Georgia
8/22/08 | HMV
Posted on 08/22/2008 2:50:28 PM PDT by Hillary’sMoralVoid
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2066347/posts