Posted on 08/21/2008 2:24:04 AM PDT by HAL9000
Excerpt -
While it is almost certainly true that Moscow's action in the Ossetian and (for good measure) the Abkhazian enclave of Georgia has been, in a real sense, the revenge for the independence of Kosovo (on Feb. 14 Vladimir Putin said publicly that Western recognition of Kosovar independence would be met by intensified Russian support for irredentism in South Ossetia), it is extremely important to bear in mind that this observation does not permit us the moral sloth of allowing any equivalence between the two dramas.Perhaps one could mention just some of the more salient differences?
1. Russia had never expressed any interest ...
~ snip ~
(Excerpt) Read more at slate.com ...
That's probably where they missed the boat.
In the unlikely scenario that Russia would invade a NATO member state, I think we would respond with conventional means, and win.
We’ve reserved the first-strike doctrine, so it remains as an option. But it’s highly unlikely that we would be the first to use nukes.
Either you have a brain or you don't. Or you like to make things up.
Fair enough. But it does sound like a plan to fool the west into thinking they were going to reform. Wouldn't the plan come before the implementation?
1 AUGUST
A pickup truck carrying six Georgian police officers is blown up by separatists.
• At 08:00, a pickup truck carrying six Georgian police officers is hit by two remote-control explosive devices on the Eredvi-Kheiti bypass road linking Georgia proper with the Didi Liakhvi Gorge, a Georgian enclave north of the breakaway region's capital Tskhinvali. Five of the six Georgian policemen are severely wounded.
• The Government of Georgia decides not to retaliate in order not to escalate the situation.
2 AUGUST
Six civilians and one Georgian policeman are injured by gunfire coming from South Ossetian territory controlled by Russian peacekeepers.
• Six civilians and one Georgian policeman are injured by gunfire coming from South Ossetian territory controlled by Russian peacekeepers, following the shelling of Georgian villages in the South Ossetian conflict zone overnight.
• The Georgian-controlled villages of Zemo Nikozi, Kvemo Nikozi, Nuli, Avnevi, Eredvi, and Ergneti come under intense fire from the South Ossetian separatists with large-caliber mortars.
• Georgian law enforcers initially shoot back in self-defense, but are soon ordered to cease fire in order not to escalate the situation.
3 AUGUST
The separatist government of South Ossetia begins evacuating civilians.A
• At 12:00, the South Ossetian separatist government announces the evacuation of more than 500 people, including about 400 children. However, Ermak Dzansolov, deputy prime minister of Russia's North Ossetian Republic, tells Russia's Interfax news agency that this is not in fact an evacuation. He explains that the children had long planned to attend a summer-camp program in North Ossetia.
• Russian media outlets, meanwhile, launch a massive propaganda campaign to whip up public sentiment against Georgia.
• At 13:00, the South Ossetian separatist government calls for the mobilization of volunteers across the North Caucasus.
4 & 5 AUGUST
Throughout both days, separatist forces in territories controlled by Russian peacekeepers fire on villages inhabited by ethnic Georgians loyal to the pro-Georgian South Ossetia government. No casualties are reported.
6 AUGUST
16:00. Separatists reject plea for negotiations and refuse to meet with Georgia's envoy for conflict resolution, Temur Yakobashvili, who has traveled to Tskinvali to meet with them.
• Temur Yakobashvili, Georgia's chief negotiator and its state minister for reintegration, says in late-night televised remarks that the Georgian government is seeking a direct dialogue with the separatist authorities in order to reverse the deteriorating security situation. Mr. Yakobashvili says that Russia's Ambassador-at-large Yuri Popov would attend the talks as a facilitator. The South Ossetian chief negotiator, Boris Chochiev, refuses to take part in any negotiations.
20:00. South Ossetian para-militaries open mortar fire on villages inhabited by ethnic Georgians.
• Separatists open mortar fire on Georgian populated villages of Eredvi, Prisi, Avnevi, Dvani, and Nuli. Georgian government forces fire back in order to defend their positions and the civilian population.
• As a result of intensive cross-fire during the night, two servicemen of the Georgian battalion of the Joint Peacekeeping Forces are injured. The separatist regime also claims several of their forces are hurt.
• Despite these provocative, targeted attacks on peaceful civilians and on Georgian police and peacekeeping forces, the Government of Georgia decides not to respond with heavy fire, in order not to injure civilians.
7 AUGUST
09:00. South Ossetian separatist government leader threatens to "clean Georgians out" from the region.
• In a morning interview with Russian news agencies, South Ossetian de facto president Eduard Kokoity declares that if the Georgian government does not withdraw its military forces from the region, he would start "to clean them out." The Georgian military forces to which he refers are peacekeepers who are legally present in the South Ossetia conflict zone.
09:45. A Russian military jet drops bombs near a Georgian military radar based 30 kilometers outside of the conflict zone.
• According to local civilian witnesses, at about 09.45, a fighter plane, presumed to be Russian (it enters Georgia from the South Ossetian conflict zone) drops 3-5 bombs near the village of Shavshvebi, approximately 300-500 meters from the location of a Georgian military radar.
15:00. For the second time in two days, the separatist government of South Ossetia refuses to negotiate with Georgian envoy Temur Yakobashvili, who again travels to Tskhinvali to plead for peace.
• Yakobashvili visits the conflict zone in the morning of August 7 to meet with representatives of the separatist government. The separatists refuse to meet or negotiate with him. Instead, Yakobashvili confers in Tskhinvali with Marat Kulakhmetov, commander of the Joint Peacekeeping Forces.
16:00. Three Georgian servicemen from the Georgian peacekeeping battalion are injured by paralimitary troops.
• Separatist militia resume shelling the Georgian villages of Nuli and Avnevi.
• Three Georgian servicemen are injured after the South Ossetian separatist forces blow up an infantry combat vehicle belonging to the Georgian peacekeeping battalion in Avnevi.
• Georgian police respond by firing towards the separatist militia in the village of Khetagurovo, where two separatist militiamen are killed and two more wounded.
• Later, the Georgian peacekeeping checkpoint in Avnevi is bombed and several Georgian servicemen and civilians are killed.
18:30. The President of Georgia announces a unilateral cease fire.
• Georgia announces a unilateral ceasefire in an attempt by the Government to defuse tensions. Temur Yakobashvili, the Georgian state minister for reintegration and envoy for conflict resolution, says at a press conference at 18:40 that he is continually seeking to contact the separatist authorities, but without success.
20:00. President Saakashvili calls on Russia to recall those of its officials who are members of the South Ossetia separatist government.
• President Saakashvili, speaking with journalists at the military hospital in Gori (where he is visiting two injured Georgian servicemen), reaffirms that despite the deadly attacks on Georgian villages, the Government of Georgia is showing maximum restraint. The President also calls on Russia to "to recall its officials" from South Ossetia, who are members of the so-called South Ossetian government.
20:30. Despite Georgia's unilateral cease-fire, the village of Avnevi in the South Ossetia conflict zone— inhabited by ethnic Georgians— is totally destroyed by mortar fire.
• Despite Georgia's unilateral ceasefire, the Georgian village of Avnevi again comes under fire from South Ossetian militiamen. The village is totally destroyed.
21:00. The Security Council of the separatist government threatens to employ Russian Cossack mercenary troops to fight Georgian peacekeepers.
• The chairman of the separatist republic's Security Council, Anatoly Barankevich, says that armed Cossack militia from North Ossetia are heading towards South Ossetia to fight Georgian peacekeepers.
22:30. Separatist paramilitaries attack the Georgian-controlled village of Prisi, leaving several civilians wounded.
23:30. Heavy shelling by separatist forces destroy Georgian police stations on the administrative border of South Ossetia.
• Separatist authorities open fire on all Georgian checkpoints around the South Ossetian capital Tskhinvali at about 23:30, including those located near the villages of Tamarasheni and Kurta. The police stations in the Georgian Kurta is destroyed as a result of heavy shelling.
23:30. 100 Russian armored vehicles and Russian troops invade Georgia, crossing the Roki Tunnel from Russia into Georgia
• The Government of Georgia receives reliable information from three separate sources that approximately 100 armored vehicles and trucks of the Russian armed forces, filled with Russian soldiers, are passing from Russia over the border of Georgia through the Roki Tunnel and are heading towards Tskhinvali. The Russian Federation is thus directly violating the sovereignty of Georgia, as these new forces are regular Russian military and not peacekeepers.
I have more for you, in second, but in the meantime I just want to say the Georgians were absolute SAINTS under these conditions.
From the first link.Moscow, in turn, transferred its efforts to South Ossetia, where pro-Russian rebels carried out attacks on Georgian forces and villages, finally provoking the response that Moscow had sought as a pretext to intervene.
Thank you, MarMema. That was the third link I gave our lazy FRiend.
OR, Russian mafia. Duh, I thought everyone knew this. Unicef did back in 2005.
"Kidnapping has long been a problem in the South Ossetian conflict zone. Eleven-year old Petriashvili told journalists he was kept in a pit for some of the time with his arms bound. The boy could not identify the names or origin of his kidnappers, but said that his capturers spoke Georgian and Russian."
"Addressing the Strasbourg-based Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, Saakashvili on 26 January proposed to South Ossetia that it renounce all independence claims in return for political, economic, and cultural autonomy."
ok..uncle!...you got me with that one
It means “advocating the restoration to their country of any territory formerly belonging to it.”
“unredeemed”...like S&H Green Stamps
a late word from Italy in regard to Hapsburg adventures..according to Wiki
amazing...I love when I see words I have no clue about
seems like a word that applies many nation’s appetites
reminds me loosely of that leibenshraum(sic) word
Not in Georgia. I suggest you look at a map. The mistake we make with adding countries to NATO is that we are increasing our risk and could undermine the credibility of NATO if we fail to act. Georgia was part of Russia. It is not the same as France, Germany, Poland, or Turkey.
We’ve reserved the first-strike doctrine, so it remains as an option. But it’s highly unlikely that we would be the first to use nukes.
Yes, we have never signed on to the no-first use doctrine in order to maintain the deterrent effect of our nuclear capability against an overpowering conventional force. However, I seriously doubt we would use nuclear weapons to defend Georgia and the Russians know it.
Not originally.
As much as Poland was...
Poland is an ancient nation that was conceived near the middle of the 10th century. Its golden age occurred in the 16th century. During the following century, the strengthening of the gentry and internal disorders weakened the nation. In a series of agreements between 1772 and 1795, Russia, Prussia, and Austria partitioned Poland amongst themselves. Poland regained its independence in 1918 only to be overrun by Germany and the Soviet Union in World War II.
Do Russian planes always bomb the Georgian military radar near the village of Shavshvebi at 9:45 and drop 3-5 bombs within approximately 300-500 meters of said radar? Or, is someone in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs adroit at cut and paste, but not too swift in the art of crafting propaganda?
August 8th
9.45: A Russian military fighter plane drops about 3-5 bombs near the village of Shavshvebi, on the highway between Poti and Tbilisi and is 300-500 meters from Georgian military radar.
The bottom line remains...
Are we better off now that Saakashvili ignored our warnings of a Russian trap and launched his attack on South Ossetians?
p.s. Don’t ya think that if Russia were bombing his country on the 7th, Saakashvili would have mentioned it?
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