Posted on 08/20/2008 7:12:04 AM PDT by T-Bird45
You don't qualify...
But I would qualify if I lived in that town and owned a .40 Glock?
To be investigated after simplying refusing a dubious test?
lol or DNA, either.
A wizard comes out from behind the curtains, takes the stand, and has incomprehensible charts and graphs and says, he did it because of these charts and graphs. If he’s convincing in his incomprehensible (to most people) chatter, the jury says, gosh, it’s proven that the DNA matches, that the lands and grooves of a stock Glock barrel are unique, etc.
In the Terry Nichols case, they proved to a jury that it was his Sears drillbit that opened the padlock at the quarry because only his bit could have left those marks on a Master padlock. There was enough other evidence, so this little gem was not pivotal.
A President Obama will go a long way towards satisfying your curiousity.
And that is precisely the problem. You don’t care if this person is guilty or innocent you just want to see action NOW. Whether the rules of evidence are followed ie the cops don’t fabricate evidence & custom tailor expert testimony like the FBI labs have done in the past or if a confession was given with the able assistance of an electric cattle prod in the crotch and that is what is truly scary.
Who said anyone right’s are being violated, save for the two executed citizens? Cops shouldn’t turn over every stone that they legally can in order to find out who violated the biggest violation of someone else’s rights?
But I’ll bet you are a really cheerleader for pro-life rights aren’t you.
Fully 75% of those contacted complied, either by letting the police test (and register, no doubt) their guns or by giving up whoever they'd sold them to.
That leaves a maximum of a 25% non-sheep population among this group - and these are gun owners! Probably a few more will fold when the police show up at their door "persuading" them to be good little subjects and "volunteer" for the tests.
If 75% of (a certain group of) gun owners in a red state let the government have their guns because they got a letter asking for them, I'm left with little hope for the population at large. Obama is seeming more likely than ever.
Dead children do not immediately deprive everyone else of their rights. The authorities are requiring gun owners to either, one, prove their innocence, or two, incriminate themselves.
Either way, the police are overstepping their bounds.
No, they are not. They are investigating a killing and trying to follow any angle. Maybe the murder weapon shows up? Maybe they can eliminate a host of suspects by asking people to come in and clear themselves? Maybe someone gives up some information that gets them somewhere?
How is someone’s rights being violated if they are asked to come in? If they don’t and the cops start kicking in doors or doing a bunch of illegal stuff then yes, there is a problem.
Who cares about the dead citizens though. They don’t need their rights any longer.
You don't see this as turning "innocent until proven guilty" on it's head? That asking them to self incriminate themselves doesn't violate a Constitutional precept?
They can ask, but those Citizens have a Right to tell them to get probable cause or go pound sand...
do they have to?
could this information be obtained from another source?
article says they got the 4473s from dealers, and they’re the only ones who are supposed to keep them. nobody’s mentioned yet WHY they gave them to the police.
warrant? fine. voluntary? boycott the shop.
Where do you draw the line? Go door to door taking DNA samples from everyone in the neighborhood? Just start breaking down doors and damn the constitution?
I can certainly see going to stores and getting lists of the appropriate owners, then cross referencing to see if some of them are likely suspects. Use that info to begin an investigation.
It's very unlikely that anyone would use a legally purchased weapon for this type of heinous crime. IMHO, the cops are heading down a blind alley because they have no other leads.
why?
because police are not the sharpest tools in the shed. They must think it is a local person and they were doing this to establish guilt by refusal to cooperate.
A policeman’s job is easy in a police state.
this is no differnet than a policeman saying either cooperate or we will use your failure to cooperate to get a warrant.
“The TV crime dramas like to make it look like it works, but it’s really just as subjective as polygraphs.
Basically, if your gun is ‘close’ then it’s your word against the ‘experts’ and you better have a rock solid alibi or you’re screwed.”
WRONG. the science of matching bullets and/or shell casings is far more solid than polygraphy. It has been subjected to peer-reviewed studies for decades. The “match” criteria are very specific and stringent. If they’re not met, it’s not a match, period. Someone who testified to a “match” that wasn’t, is putting their career, and possibly even their freedom at risk.
Oh, and BOTH sides get to bring their “experts” to court with them. There are plenty of defense firearm/toolmark examiners out there.
In THIS case, they are in a tight spot, as projectile evidence from polygonally-rifled barrels is not reliable. I’d say they are far more interested in cartridge casings, as Glock ones are VERY specific to the individual firearm. Glocks have a characteristic impression that is particularly easy to match.
If they were to ask me to come in and clear my gun the first person I call is my lawyer. I would urge anyone to do the same. But, their asking isn’t an issue for me.
While I can certainly see your point about the sheep factor here, I am not so sure about Obama being a foregone conclusion. I write that with the caveat that I am also not a McCain supporter.
I understand your position but I'm going to disagree with you here...
The larger picture is getting the wacko off the streets. It isn't about your gun ownership...
OK
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