Posted on 08/18/2008 6:36:43 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
Russia yesterday threatened to 'crush' anyone who dared to defy it, after moving missile launchers within range of Georgia's capital.
The provocative move throws down the gauntlet to Nato leaders meeting today in emergency session on the new Cold War crisis.
U.S. intelligence said the Kremlin had moved several SS-21 missile launchers into the rebel enclave of South Ossetia, putting them in range of Tbilisi.
The move allows Russia to pull out of Georgia proper as it has promised but punish Tbilisi at any moment at the push of a button.
Russian president Dmitry Medvedev vowed a 'crushing response' if Georgia or anyone else dares to defy Moscow's will in the tinderbox Caucasus region. ...
Mr Medvedev was at his most hawkish since the conflict erupted, telling war veterans: 'If someone thinks they can kill our citizens, kill soldiers and officers fulfilling the role of peacekeepers, we will never allow this.
'Anyone who tries to do this will receive a shattering blow.'
His warning followed Russian threats to unleash nuclear weapons on Poland in a future conflict because Warsaw agreed to installations linked to America's defence shield.
Moscow has also indicated that it will arm its Baltic fleet with nuclear weapons.
Awarding medals to servicemen involved in the conflict in Georgia, Mr Medvedev insisted that Russia has always been 'a peace-loving nation'.
He added: 'The Russian, Soviet state has never started a war. But even the most peace-loving state should have an effective army.'
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
And So Ossetia did not, under the Independence Law declare itself until AFTERwards. And So. Ossetia only did so by declaring WAR against Georgia BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.
Each of the provinces should have filed their own "independence". They did not do so. Why? Georgia should not have had to ask permission of any province. These provinces needed to declare themselves. They didn't. But now wish to claim they are a part of Russia. By their silence, they allied with Georgia.
“Ossetia is “not a part” of Georgia because it wishes to be a part of Russia. But now, when Georgia Government helps the US in Iraq/Afghanistan, So. Ossetia is considered NOW, for argumentation purposes “Georgia”?”
“Military instructors were sent to So. Ossetia and/or to Georgia?”
1. S. Ossetia is not part of Georgia. At least - not any more.
2. US sent instructors to Georgian army. (As well as Israelis by the way, but Israelis were smart enough to withdraw them before the war).
Minor note: The use of the word “Soviet” was not created by the communists, or properly, Bolsheviks, but by the original democrats who overthrew the Czar. The political spectrum of the time lends itself to some confusion.
The “right”, in Russia, were the monarchists. They were essentially thrown out of government completely, though were still a major force in their military, in the midst of fighting WWI.
This left the majority of the Duma, or parliament, to be ruled by what today we would call “the loony left”. The majority party were the Mensheviks (literally “minority”), with only a small, radical and violent faction which were the Bolsheviks.
The President of Russia was a loony leftist named Alexander Kerensky, an excitable, incompetent, and ineffectual man if ever there was one.
Their legislative efforts were appalling. For example, outlawing the rank structure in the military, so that all military decisions were to be made by majority vote. This almost caused the collapse of their army in the middle of the war.
For their part, the Bolsheviks discovered that by acting outrageously in the Duma, banging desks, throwing balls of paper, screaming and blowing whistles, the idiot Mensheviks would stomp out as a group, again and again.
This mattered, because they had no quorum rule, so the Bolsheviks could then pass law after law without debate, and did. And the Mensheviks kept storming out in a snit, to let them do this.
Kerensky was personally terrified of the Bolsheviks. At one point, while dictating a letter, he heard an explosion, so he jumped onto his desk and screamed that the Bolsheviks were trying to capture the building. His secretary looked out the window to discover a car had backfired, then shook his head “no”. Kerensky got off his desk, sat back down and continued to dictate his letter.
Eventually, his paranoia got the better of him, so he ordered a senior, right wing General to prepare his army, then at the front, to advance on St. Petersburg, the capital, to defend the government against the then unarmed Bolsheviks, if they tried to seize power.
The General decided that Kerensky should be replaced by a military dictatorship, so he ordered his forces to march on St. Petersburg anyway. Hearing of the intended coup, Kerensky opened the police arsenal and issued rifles to the Bolsheviks, telling them to defend the city against the army.
The Bolsheviks took the rifles, but didn’t use them, instead standing on the side of the road as the army marched past, screaming to the (green) soldier-recruits to defect, which they did. By the time the army arrived in St. Petersburg, a little over a company, mostly senior officers, remained. They were arrested by the police.
The Bolsheviks did not return the rifles, instead using them to overthrow the Mensheviks, and Kerensky, a mere nine months after they had overthrown the Czar.
The inanity could have been written by Monty Python.
I will add as a final note that Alexander Kerensky survived and fled Russia, eventually traveling to the United States, where he lived to a ripe old age. Almost to the time of his death in 1970, he would give lectures at Stanford, as a member of the Hoover Institution, most of which was either bragging, lying or trying to put the blame for his failures on anyone but himself.
“Kerensky died at his home in New York City in 1970, one of the last surviving major participants in the turbulent events of 1917. The local Russian Orthodox Churches in New York refused to grant Kerensky burial, seeing him as being a Freemason and being largely responsible for Russia falling to the Bolsheviks. A Serbian Orthodox Church also refused. Kerensky’s body was then flown to London where he was buried at Putney Vale non-denominational cemetery.”
You have a gift for understatement.
What do you suppose was the intent and effect of giving Russian passports to Ossetians, in the midst of sovereign Georgia?
What does it tell Georgia about its sovereignty within its own borders?
1. Did not install pro-Russian gov. (In contrast to US in Georgia during “Rose revolution”)
Russia did not need to install anything. The Ossetians are quite pro-Russia anyway.
Do you have any proof that the US "installed" the government of Georgia? Is there any possibility, in your mind, that the Georgian government is a pro-Western democracy because that's what the Georgian people chose?
2. Did not include Ossetian president of Kremlin pay roll (Saakashvili is on US Dep payroll)
Do you have any proof for this claim? ...other than your imagination?
3. Did not kill political opponents (Georgian premier Jvania was murdered by Saakashvili)
LOLOLOLOL! *gasp* LOLOLOLOLOLOL!
Wow, now that's either really funny or reeeeeeaaaaally naive of you!
4. Did not supply Ossetia with heave weapons (US supplied Georgia with tons of modern weapons starting from M-16 to helicopters)
"heave weapons"? I'm not familiar with that term.
Russia doesn't need to sell any weapons to Ossetia, because they just do the fighting for them anyway. When Russia invades the whole country of Georgia, who cares if the Ossetians have weapons?
You don't have to sell weapons to a country you occupy and fight for.
“Each of the provinces should have filed their own “independence”. They did not do so”
Oh, they did. They were not alllowed to by Georgia. Read more about first Georgian-Abkhazian and Georgian-Ossetian war in early 90 if you are so interested in this topic.
You may wish that it was this way, but that does not make it so.
Nobody in the world, outside of Russia and Ossetia, recognizes Ossetia as a country. They certainly do recognize Georgia as a country.
Israel did not nor has betrayed America or Georgia through withdrawing its troops before, as you say, "the war".
S. Ossetia is not part of Georgia. At least - not any more.
You know it really amazes me how many on FR declare that "words" being used now in re Diplomats, Dignitaries, Ambassadors, SecState - "the situation" is stupid, and idiotic; but yet, here they are on a forum exchanging words..... ;>
The words are important. And an important prelude in any exchange.
Casual sex is just not what some purport it's cracked up to be... lol
As I said, So. Ossetia was sold out by the communist left. Not Americans. And yes, some in Georgia did sell out So. Ossetia; and they, in return were rousted out of Georgia bureacracies by Georgians. By then, So. Ossetia was already taking the counsel of anyone but "Georgians". Clearly. A "no justice/no peace" solidarity movement was born in So. Ossetia which took into NO consideration any facts which differed from what the Solidarity Front in So Ossetia allowed its citizens to know.
The russian drones are clueless and hopeless. Its a lost cause.I have finally come to terms with this. You cant reason with them like a normal human being.
Hi there, backhoe! Hope you are well... That comic is brilliant. Thanks for posting it! Take care. - LR :)
The American left has egg all over its face, and which is why they are coming up instead with McCain SaddleBack Conspiracies; and making virtually no public comments of any solidity in re Georgia.
They can't claim that Georgia was racist, homophobic, wifebattering knuckledraggers. When Russia currently fits that stereotype.
Oh, how disappointed American Liberal Ideologues must be, but privately praying that Russian "can get a grasp of nuanced verbiage" but just so the American Left can save face, and continue its usual rants about how horrid oppression is in America.
How bloody awful to be an American Marxist/Socialist.
Ah, thanks, yes, Backfire. Seems to have a combat radius of 1500 mi., so youre right, seems iffy if they would show up on the vermont coast.
The Blackjack has a combat radius of over 7000 miles however, so its quite possible that what has appeared is these? They carry 88000 lbs of ordnance. Carries 12 200Kt warhead armed cruise missiles.
Interesting news on the Bears, by the way. I didnt know about the MS development.
RUSSIAN PRESIDENT WARNS GEORGIANS Published: Aug. 18, 2008 at 11:35 AM
"If anyone thinks they can get away with killing our citizens and officers, we will not allow this," Medvedev said. "Anyone who tries to do something of the kind will receive a crushing response."
Medvedev said Russia is seeking respect, not escalation.
"We have always been a peace-loving nation," he said. "The Russian, Soviet state has never started a war."[emphasis mine].
RUSSIAN PRESIDENT PLEDGES HARSH RESPONSE TO AGGRESSION
Published August 18, 2008
"We have always been a peace-loving nation. Neither the Soviet, nor the Russian state has ever started a war. But even the most peace-loving state should have an effective army," Medvedev added. [emphasis mine]
RUSSIAN PRESIDENT WARNS GEORGIANS Published: Aug. 18, 2008 at 11:35 AM
"If anyone thinks they can get away with killing our citizens and officers, we will not allow this," Medvedev said. "Anyone who tries to do something of the kind will receive a crushing response."
Medvedev said Russia is seeking respect, not escalation.
"We have always been a peace-loving nation," he said. "The Russian, Soviet state has never started a war."[emphasis mine].
RUSSIAN PRESIDENT PLEDGES HARSH RESPONSE TO AGGRESSION
Published August 18, 2008
"We have always been a peace-loving nation. Neither the Soviet, nor the Russian state has ever started a war. But even the most peace-loving state should have an effective army," Medvedev added. [emphasis mine]
Sorry for the double-post...
We have always been a peace-loving nation. Neither the Soviet, nor the Russian state has ever started a war. ==
All right. May be I had mistaken he said that. I saw this his remark on TV alaive. DO not remember he saing “Soviet”. But if so many sources tell he said that then OK he said that. IMO it is wrong saying then.
Exactly!
Something big is up, but expect Russia to draw down after November. This is also an intelligence operation to test the West’s resolve and combat capabilities. They are not ready for all out war - yet. Fortunately, they have now tipped there hand and the USA has time to prepare.
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