State science standards in election spotlight (ID/Creation Kansans need to vote!)

The Wichita Eagle ^ | August 1, 2008 | LORI YOUNT

[GodGunsGuts]

With five seats on the State Board of Education up for grabs this year, education advocates say how children learn about evolution hangs in the balance -- and who voters choose could affect Kansas' national reputation.

A frequent flip-flop between moderate and conservative majorities on the 10-member board has resulted in the state changing its science standards four times in the past eight years.

Conservatives have pushed for standards casting doubt on evolution, and moderates have said intelligent design does not belong in the science classroom.

In 2007, a new 6-4 moderate majority removed standards that called evolution into question.

This year, none of the three moderates whose seats are up for election are running again. Only one of the two conservative incumbents is running for re-election...

[allmendream]

Wrong.

Scientists who were/are Christian have a huge and distinguished scientific pedigree.

Faraday was not a Creation Scientists. His Science had nothing to do with gathering ‘evidence’ in support of a six thousand year old earth or denying Biological evolution.

Claiming Scientists who lived and studied the vast majority of their life before Darwin even published, and who never claimed to believe in a six thousand year old earth is absolutely ludicrous. But absolutely in line with the shoddy claims and half truths of Creation “Science”. But then again there HAS to be a good reason why your list peters out around the 1870’s.

[tpanther]

Reading is so fundamental!

Let’s see...a school shows a film, pulls the film and that means it never existed?

How handy! Saddam would be so proud!

Since you’re so busy defending the indefensible, try this on...

http://politicalvanguard.com/index.php?id=billsimon

http://www.gospelhour.net/2177.html

Reality, not paranoia, this affected my kids school district.

Again, I’ve dealt with this pathology before!

[tacticalogic]

And the claims of creationists being "sued into oblivion", and school administrators banning books from libraries and preventing children from reading creationist books on their own time?

You'll claim anything just to see what you can get away with. As soon as someone asks you to back it up, you change the subject. You give people reason distrust what you're saying.

[tpanther]

Denial is a river in Africa...seen it all before.

Denying it doesn’t make it go away.

godless fascists are attacking our culture from Michael Newdow hijacking his own daughter to attack God in our pledge, to banning ID...and you can’t compete with the overwhelming mountains of evidence so you just blabbber nonsense about changing subjects and/or making stuff up.

pathetic!

google Mt. Soledad.

google Montgomery county Maryland banning Santa Claus.

google town logos banned by ACLU in L.A. and Los Cruces.

google nativity ban.

google war on Christmas

google culture war

google ACLU and ‘ban’ and ID

The ID ban is merely one front in the overall war on our culture.

But the fact remains the only way the godless liberals can compete is to hijack the courts to get things banned, under the radar in many cases, against the will of the people.

Everyone on FR knows it. And your ilk is fooling no one but yourselves.

Continually denying it makes you a tool or one of the godless fascists decent people need to stop.

Confront your denial in one handy click if you wish:

www.catholicleague.org

or wallow in your delusions for everyone to see.

Other places to view fascist godless liberals:

www.aclj.org

www.thomasmore.org

And hey, why can’t any of you clowns show us where godless liberal have demonstrated objectivity?

journalism.....nope we get the drive-by media

politics....PLEEEEEEEZ!!!!

law.....hardly!

education....OMG talk about total failures!

You should seek out some deprogramming, honestly!

There’s help out there!

[Ha Ha Thats Very Logical]

Trying to have a discussion with some of these anti-evolutionists reminds me of tracking a plane equipped with chaff. Whenever you try to home in on a specific issue, they throw up a bunch of bright shiny talking points—Michael Newdow! Hitler! Pointy-headed elitists!—and run away in the resulting confusion.

[GodGunsGuts]

Sorry Allmendream,

As a biblical literalist and member of the non-conformist church, Fraraday would be considered a young earth creationist by today’s standards. This view was quite common amongst scientists of his era. And yet, somehow Faraday’s biblical literalism not only did not prevent him from becoming one of the giants of science, but indeed inspired the very research that made him a legend.

[tacticalogic]

You’ve already given me links I wasted time following that dind’t have the information you claimed was there. I will not waste any more time on you. You lie.

[tpanther]

In other words...you’ve chosen the later.

This comes as no surprise to sane people.

We call it the wet paper bag syndrome.

OR for those of you in Rio Linde, you can’t argue your way out of a wet paper bag.

[tacticalogic]

Peddle your fantasy martydom to somebody else.

[allmendream]

You may as well claim all Scientist pre-Copernicus were Geo-centrists and anti-Helicentrists, even if their field had nothing to do with Astronomy.

Faraday was inspired by his faith in God as most Scientists of faith are; and as I am.

Faraday never spoke of the age of the earth or denied Biological evolution. Other than his Church membership you have absolutely nothing to support the idea that he was in any way a Creationist.

[tacticalogic]

They hide behind a shower of perjorative confetti.

[tpanther]

You obviously need to address your wet paper bag smothering the life out of you.

[tacticalogic]

I know, you think God made you an expert on what everyone else needs.

[tpanther]

No, it’s that God gave me enough sense to recognize right from wrong, and being an American I know censorship is not only wrong but un-AMERICAN.

[GodGunsGuts]

You keep telling yourself that, Allmendream. Faraday was a biblical literalist, and belonged to the most exclusive and demanding biblical literalist sect of them all, the Sandeman church. By today's standards, he would be considered an utltra-fundamentalist Christian. Not only that, he viewed science as the study of GOD'S LAW'S and GOD'S Creation. Moreover, he thought nature testified to God's power and God's wisdom (but considered this knowledge as valueless as a guide to salvation). Let's face it, Faraday's religious beliefs were the embodiment of everything you hate about modern fundamentalist Christianity. I find it amazing how hard it is for you to let go of him. But you might as well face the cold, hard facts. As someone who rose to deacon and then elder of the Sandeman church, he was totally opposed to your liberal theology. As a scientist, he used biblical principles to inspire his research. And as a biblical literalist, he believed in special creation and a young earth. None of this will ever change; so if you're having a hard time dealing with it, you may want to seek counseling.

[tacticalogic]

No, it’s that God gave me enough sense to recognize right from wrong, and being an American I know censorship is not only wrong but un-AMERICAN.

You're like the artists that cry "censorship" when we won't pay them for their "art". People not wanting to have to pay to have your religion taught to their kids is not "censorship".

[allmendream]

Seek counseling? Is that mind reading and/or personal attack?

You haven't provided a single quote from Faraday that would establish him as a Creation Scientist or that he personally rejected Darwinism or an old earth. Not a single quote.

Faraday was a Scientist. He was in no way a Creation Scientist. He engaged in no apologetics and accepted his results even when he thought the symmetry of the universe would prove a ‘gravoelectric’ force or whatever.

And your list curiously peters out around the 1870’s. Is that because the majority of those on the list were not Creation Scientists but Scientists who were Christians.

[GodGunsGuts]

Try to engage your brain, Allmendream. As a biblical literalist, he would have to reject Darwinism by definition. Moreover, every biography that I have read that comments on the subject, concedes he was a young earth creationist, which btw was pretty standard at the time.

[js1138]

Try to engage your brain, Allmendream. As a biblical literalist, he would have to reject Darwinism by definition.

Darwin was a Biblical literalist in his early years, as was nearly everyone in his time. It would be difficult to find many scientists before 1830 who were not Biblical Literalists. Geology made the difference, not Darwin. Biblical literalism would have died without Darwin or Wallace.

Any physical scientist not convinced by 1830 would have become convinced when they saw the results of potassium-argon dating.

[allmendream]

Other YEC’ers claim Faraday was a young earth creationists? No kidding. I mean a source that has actual evidence to substantiate it. Faraday lived at a time when Geologists had already begun to question the age of the earth. If he never weighed in on the subject but attended a “literalist church” I am afraid his particular opinion on the subject must remain unknown, and perhaps intentionally upon his part.

When asked about the supposed superiority of Creation Science (unburdened by our mistaken notions of evolution and an old earth and a constant light speed and atomic decay) you provided a source.

Journals of Creation Research establish what is meant and what it takes to be a “Creation Scientist”. You have to explain how the real science is wrong...but if you feed my interpretation of the Bible into the numbers, it all comes out to six thousand years, a worldwide flood, etc, etc.

Faraday never engaged in any of that. He was an experimentalist and believed the evidence of his eyes. He derived physical constants of the universe by measurement and observation, not by reliance upon Biblical interpretation.