Posted on 08/18/2008 6:06:46 AM PDT by marktwain
And if you can't say these things with a clear conscience, you have no business pulling the trigger.
Always remember to say why you did something, instead of specifically what you did. "He was going to kill me" is much better than "I was tying to kill him." And per Clint Smith, always demand that the perp be arrested, especially if you're making the 911 call. Just because you may have neutralized the threat doesn't mean an arrestable crime was not committed. If it goes to court, you want the officer stating that you wanted the individual arrested, even before a medical condition was determined.
Absolutely. Say, “I was in fear for my life” instead of, “I shot him.” After that it’s, “Speak to my lawyer.”
I guess. I remember the first time I ever killed a deer. I was in college & in Army ROTC. The year was 1977. I had him real close. Close enough for us to look into each others eyes in tight brush. I started to shake. Classic case of Buck Fever. Then I settled down, closed my eyes and concentrated on believing I was looking at a Russian soldier. It was dead easy after that. One shot. One kill.
I've spoken to other folks who've had that moment you mention but the first one was instantly followed by numbers two through eight. The first one didn't cause any problems thereafter, except possibly for those who've been raised by liberals and democrats and all those issues. OTOH, I also knew a guy whose first kill was an insurgent he was forced to kill silently and he did so with a knife. I think that one caused him some sleepless nights but mostly because he was thinking how easily the roles might have been reversed.
Well said. Even if they’re all different it’s the first one that’s hardest.
Did I ever use the words “remorse” or “sadness”? All I was saying was that killing in real life is not like the way it’s shown in the movies. I’ve talked with veterans who say it was a big deal the first time they had to take a life. I have a friend who’s a captain in the LAPD. He showed me the police psychology studies which showed that the action which has the greatest mental impact on an officer is having to shoot someone in the line of duty. I’m not saying that any of those people felt guilty or thought they did wrong by having to kill a dangerous criminal or an enemy soldier. I’m only saying that killing is not something to be taken casually. Look at my home page. I’m a real anti-gun, Reagan-hating, Code Pink-loving liberal (extreme sarcasm).
You’re attacking the wrong person. We’re both on the same side. When a soldier, cop, or citizen shoots someone in self-defense, they deserve our full support, because there will be hordes of lawyers, politicians, and liberal talking heads going after them. If they do feel an emotional impact after shooting someone and we just dismiss that with, “Oh, you’re just being a liberal wuss,” that’s not supporting them. We should tell them, in a tone that shows 100% support, that they did the right thing and they shouldn’t let guilt eat away at them, becasue they’ll need all the support they can get, especially in places like California.
You might still disagree. That’s fine. But there are civil ways of disagreeing. Screaming that something that you disagree with is “unadulterated crappola” is not the way to win arguments.
And don’t ever compare me to a liberal reporter who cries when terrorists die. I’ve actually been flamed by others here for being “too happy” about the death of that Hamas slimeball in the wheelchair.
Every bullet is lethal, no matter what caliber or where it impacts, so every shot is a shot to kill in theory. Of course, you should be thinking “shoot to stop”, but don't say anything-read on!
No need to explain at all, in fact, no need to say anything other than “name, rank serial number” to the cops, it is their job to figure it all out. Remember, anything and everything you say can and will likely be used against you.
The only thinking I recommend anyone involved in a shooting (or any matter unavailing the police for that matter) is simply:
“My name is John Smith, I live at 123 AnyLane, Anywhere USA”. Here is my CCW certificate (if appropriate), I will be glad to answer questions after I have spoken to my attorney”.
Stick to it no matter what! The 5th Amendment is not for crooks or criminals-it is to protect you, the law abiding citizen from injuring yourself over any legal matter.
Once you have spoken to your attorney, have him present during all interviews (PC for interrogations)and better yet, do not say anything at all. Let the facts be shown by investigation.
As to the placement of his rounds, the gentlemen involved was 100% on target-he aimed low CM and hit with all of his shots; having been in the dark moment myself, it is sometimes amazing that you can do much of anything at all, let alone precisely deliver rounds from a handgun. I quickly traded up to a M590 shotgun and an M249-probably was the best armed FG officer in my element. The M9 was just baggage.
Well done, sir.
God Bless and MOLON LABE
“My name is John Smith, I live at 123 AnyLane, Anywhere USA”. Here is my CCW certificate (if appropriate), I will be glad to answer questions after I have spoken to my attorney”.
Stick to it no matter what! The 5th Amendment is not for crooks or criminals-it is to protect you, the law abiding citizen from injuring yourself over any legal matter.
Once you have spoken to your attorney, have him present during all interviews (PC for interrogations)and better yet, do not say anything at all. Let the facts be shown by investigation.
Well worth repeating.
It's also exactly what my ex police chief instructor advised. Tell the police what you've laid out, then SHUT UP!.
In defense of Jill and the rest of the poor innocents that 'feel' that way, that is how they are taught. How many times have you seen a story of a kid in Grammar or High School get murdered or killed, and the first thing out of those who think they are in charge is "We will provide Counselors for all ...". None of that happened when I was in school back in the late 50's and Jimmy got murdered or Willie and Wanda wrapped a tree, yet I didn't see anyone falling apart. The feminization of our society begins in the public schools, and we're all poorer for it.
thinking= thing
unavailing= involving
My, the spell checker is ruining my day!
THAT Is exactly my point! I excerpt a recent freepmail I sent in this regard:
There is a huge difference between combat killing and killing by police officers and much of that is a result of mental indoctrination acquired in the public & private schools over the last four decades by the liberal agenda, especially in the applications of law enforcement.
Soldiers who kill are prepped for the act from the moment they begin training. Even in ROTC we’d sing the “jodies” or running songs to stay in step while running in formation. Catchy stanzas like: “See the commie dressed in black? He’s got my KA-BAR In his back! See the commie dressed in Red? He’s got my bullet in his head!” College students about to graduate and become commissioned officers as I did.
It seems to me that the indoctrination taking place in both public and private schools is very effective since it is repeated over and over from first grade thru the post grad levels but it also seems to me that an effective antidote is military training sweetened with a good dose of danger and a dash of camaraderie.
My perception is that some posts are referring to soldiers as being angst ridden about being forced into life taking. Nothing could be further from the truth. It makes a difference in how that act is initiated and under what circumstances. Civilians who take lives in defense of self or family and come from the public school curriculum's are the main victims of others who are equally indoctrinated. Cops are the next most vilified and victimized since they're conditioned to believe their job is to protect and to serve, while any possibility of taking a life is minimized. See how quickly they are fed to the wolves when they are forced to take a life.
“Don’t think the same thing doesn’t happen after a successful self defense by anybody besides a liberal who feels the gawd awful guilt trips laid upon him by spineless sniveling vermin who would rather knuckle under and crawl before they’ll hurt any living thing.”
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Let me get this right. You are saying that if you were to kill someone (even justifiably and legally) you would have absolutely no problems at all? And that those of us who would feel a whole range of psychological type responses - denial, guilt, justification, remorse etc - are just a bunch of liberal wimps?
It took me quite awhile to square being a born again Christian with carrying a gun to church and nearly everywhere else until I realized that my personal status had shifted from protector of the nation (soldier) to protector of the flock (Sheepdog) and that entire philosophy is aptly expressed here: I ONLY HANG WITH SHEEPDOGS Now I fully recognize this status and embrace it without feeling either superior or judgmental of others. So no, I don't judge you in the least! Everybody will deal with a crisis in different ways.
In 1986, I was the Officer in Charge of my little detachment of FL National Guardsmen attending the US Army School of Jungle Warfare at Fort Sherman, Panama, C.A. We were sharing the school with a battalion from the 82nd Airborne. One night I was leaving the combination officers club and NCO club with a bunch of folks when we stopped to watch a friendly game of pickup basketball by the troops on the lit courts. As usual, it was hot, like AFRICA HOT. One of the kids from the 82nd followed a loose ball into the weeds and while there he cussed and reached down to slap at his leg. Then he returned to the court and took the ball in for a goal. In seconds he was flopping around on the ground in severe convulsions.
We ran over. I rolled him over on his side as he began to vomit and aspirate that vomit into his lungs. I cleared the air passage and his mouth. Then I gave him to an NCO to continue first aid as I sprinted to the commo shack where I kicked open the door and ordered a DUSTOFF (MEDEVAC mission) be sent to Sherman's parade field. Then I sprinted up to the top floor of my barracks and fished out the emergency strobe light from my rucksack. I got some of the school's permanent party folks (Instructors) and told them to put the quarter tons (jeeps M151A1) onto the field in an inverted "T" formation with their service drive lights on so I could vector in the chopper flight. Within moments I heard the heavy WHOPPA WHOPPA of UH1H blades and I shoved that strobe light up at the end of my fist blinking. The bird settled down onto my field expedient LZ and the sergeants dashed the victim over. As they were putting him aboard, I knew he was dead by the wet dishrag disposition of his body and other signs.
I went back to my bunk, put out the lights and shook and shivered for hours wondering if there had been anything else I could have done. I didn't cause his death but I wondered if there was something I could have done to prolong his life, despite the fact that everything was on automatic for me. I wasn't actually thinking and cognitively processing. I was running all on training.
The next day there was an airborne memorial service for the 18 year old paratrooper with the previously undetected heart murmur. There was an inquest and I gave a written deposition. I was commended on my actions for that night. Funny, it didn't make me feel any better.
Everybody handles that terrible moment differently, so NO I'm not judging.
L
I ONLY HANG WITH SHEEPDOGS Now I fully recognize this status and embrace it without feeling either superior or judgmental of others. So no, I don’t judge you in the least! Everybody will deal with a crisis in different ways.
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I just read that link. I understand that philosophy now. It came over loud and clear. So dont tell me you arent judging.
Oh come on! “There is nothing morally superior about being a sheepdog”...twaddle! That’s like doing a docu-drama about President Mush and Secretary Hainey, who invade a country called Iral, and then printing a disclaimer that “this is a work of fiction and any resemblence to real people is purely coincidental” You can’t say something like “there is nothing morally superior” and then spend the rest of the article trying to illustrate EXACTLY the opposite! The whole article drips with contempt for “sheep”.
I’ll tell you another phrase. Don’t p**s down my back and tell me its raining...
Perhaps, but I am what I am. I can tell you that the only folks who will show the level of outrage that you display are themselves: "sheep." I guess I struck a nerve, huh? The only thing I find contemptible about sheep are their constant efforts to defang the sheepdogs who will not only always stand between the sheep and physical danger but will indeed lay down their very lives to keep the sheep safe. Why are you so angry?
I’m angry at the duplicity being exhibited by a group that blatantly insults others but attempts to cover it up by a cowardly disclaimer to the contrary. You yourself admit this - you stated at first that there is no moral superiority involved, but then agreed that you “am what I am” at the assertion that the whole article drips with contempt for “sheep”!
Besides, why should I not be angry? Being compared to a sheep is not generally considered a compliment. Who enjoys being insulted? As for this ridiculous assertion you make:
“The only folks who will show the level of outrage that you display are themselves “PEOPLE WHO DISAGREE WITH ME”. There, fixed it for you. :)
I have nothing but respect for warriors. I think that those who daily put their lives on the line for the rest of us are worthy of nothing but the best, the utmost support, and the greatest of commendation. I have absolutely no desire to “defang” them. Quite the contrary.
I know enough about war to know that I would make a very bad soldier. I am what I am too. A man should know his limitations. I do what I can by working in the defence industry, and I stand my ground against all the peaceniks and well-meaning do-gooders that think that makes me unprincipled and possibly an accessory to murder. There are all kinds of battlefields.
You see? You are a type of Sheepdog! Most freepers are sheepdogs of one type or another, by the nature of the type of individual this forum attracts. You may not choose to wear a firearm but that doesn't make you any less the defender of FREEDOM! Sheeeesh, you work in an industry that would eat me alive. There are folks in your area who work actively everyday to destroy this great country using every tool and point of leverage at their disposal. You stand up to them. You bring their dirty little secrets into the light of truth. That's one hell of a fine example of a sheepdog, if you ask me. I salute you, sir and I'm not kidding, either.
I'm but a simple school teacher. I work in an inner city high school. My job unfolds each year in a generally linear fashion. I pretty much know where the folks in my school stand, politically and I also know they can't harm me in any way, either directly or not. Except the Principal. Even then it only extends to the amount I allow. I can always transfer to another school.
Your job, otoh, defines the terms: Assymetric low intensity conflict. You have to wage guerilla warfare just to survive. You don't know anything about the folks with whom you work. At least at the start. You have no idea who the yellow bellied peace-niks are or who wants to replace our representative democracy with an authoritarian socialism. It might be your boss, in which case you have to reign yourself in very tightly and constantly look for the hidden traps and pitfalls that may have been set just to make you look or feel badly in front of your peers.
I'll say it again, I couldn't exist in your jungle without pushing the wrong "personality button" which is a terrible fault in my character, I admit. I find the pet peeves and skewed mindset in liberals and exploit that to drive them all crazy. Eventually, that would catch up to me and I'd be dead meat.
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