Posted on 08/15/2008 11:38:33 AM PDT by maclay
RUSSIAN soldiers have been caught on camera ROBBING a bank in war-torn Georgia. The band of gun-toting men were caught on CCTV forcing their way into the bank in Gori.
Once inside, the men are seen breaking into the teller offices and rifling through the desks.
(Excerpt) Read more at thesun.co.uk ...
Ever read about the Soviet/Russian actions in Eastern Europe, especially the eastern zones of Germany, but also in Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Romania, Hungary, etc? Also Hungary in '56.
And yes the Russians have a particularly harsh code, not as harsh as the old Japanese code or the North Koreans', but probably harsher than the Germans during WW-II.
But it's only invoked when the troops fail to obey orders, or otherwise do what their leaders do not want them to do. Treating conquered peoples harshly is not one of those things.
To be fair, the Russians are merely backwards, as in many areas. Such rape, pillage and looting was once fairly common in all armies after a campaign. In some cases the looting and pillaging was the only way the army could support itself.
The Russians used to employ prisoners, their own people not caputured enemy, as "assault forces". They'd put machine gun units behind them, usually manned by troops from a different part of the Empire, to mow them down if they retreated or even failed to advance. The Russian, and probably the Georgian as well, military is the heir to such thinking.
heheheee...
One of my favorites...
And yet they still haven't learned a thing. It would be fun to go and list all of the times they sided on the wrong and consequently received a great big "I told you so!"
Please give it a rest. There are two sides to every story. I don’t support anybody in this conflict. Both sides have blood on their hands. It isn’t black and white. Certain people only think and discuss in perceived nationalistic stereotypes. Your reply falls exactly into that category.
Answer the question. Are you a Russian?
There are two sides to every story.
Yes there is. But the side of the Nazis and the side of the Jews don't carry the same moral weight.
Both sides have blood on their hands.
Sometimes it is ok to have blood on your hands. In the case of the Georgians, their "blood" is that of Russian-trained terrorists who were committing acts of sabotage and murder.
It isn’t black and white.
No, it pretty much is. The Russians are the aggressors here, and they are occupying land that does not belong to them. They are the ones who have been training terrorists for the past several years just to incite just this sort of response in order to legitimize their invasion.
Certain people only think and discuss in perceived nationalistic stereotypes.
We're not dealing in perception here, we're dealing in reality. And the reality is that the Russians train terrorists, the Russians bombed Georgia, the Russians used South Ossetia as a staging area, and the Russians invaded Georgia. Those are the facts.
Your reply falls exactly into that category.
So are the Russians paying you to post, or do you just hate freedom?
Nah; the Russians have been planning for this sort of thing for years. As part of their cyber-warfare plans, they have a propaganda wing with people that pose as ordinary posters and establish accounts for later use when needed (such as now) in forums, blogs, etc. all across the Internet.
The problem is determining which of these people are Russians, which are cowards, and which are just paleoconservatives who legitimately believe in isolationism. There are probably a few of the last group among Free Republic (and I respect their position even if I do not agree with it), but they can be easily distinguished from the Russians because they won't actually excuse the Russian aggression the way the Russian infiltrators are doing.
SU-25, note Russian Markings.
SU-25KM from your link
So, which is this?
Actualy that's better quality/resolution than the ones I've seen labeled as Russian Su-25 bombing Georgia.
You are claiming that I am supporting the Russians when all I see from you is complete Georgian empathy. I support nobody in this conflict. Both sides do have blood on their hands throught the long history of Russian-Georgian conflict and in this one too. I am a retired intel analyst (retired from UK forces). I see the conflict from that perspective and nothing else - a completely impartial view.
I can see that everything you say is purely from a Georgian perpective. The conflict isn’t black and white. It isn’t a simple case of good verses evil and both sides have a part to play in the causes.
Check back my posting history. My view is impartial. I call it as I see it. Check out the Kosovo threads. All the hot heads on those threads were claiming that Russia was going to help Serbia invade Kosovo. They were adamant that the Russian were not going to sit back and not take any action. I correctly informed them that the Russians were not going to lift a finger to assist the Serbs and neither was Serbia going to invade. They were still adamant that their version was going to take place.
I see conflicts for exactly what they are. That is how I was trained. The Russians are simply in their eyes solving the South Ossetian problem once and for all. Rightly or wrongly. They also took the opportunity to punish and humiliate the Georgian President and his armed forces. Again rightly or wrongly. I am not condoning their actions, but simply seeing it from my perspective as an intel analyst. The Russians were not out to occupy or stay in Georgia, but simply teaching the Georgians a lesson. They used their air power to further humiliate the Georgian President by taking out economic and strategic targets at will. Such actions hurt.
The forces involved were insufficient to control and occupy the whole of Georgia. The estimate is that they used only 15,000 troops from the North Caucasus Military Disrict. That district alone can muster 100,000. The air power that they used was also from the NCMD. It would have taken hundreds of thousands of troops years to subdue and quell Georgian unrest. The push into Georgia beyond the disputed territories was simply, in Russian eyes, teaching the Georgians a lesson. Total force control.
I can see that lots of people on Freepers thought that the sky was falling when the Russians entered Georgia. I have spoken to still serving colleagues both US and UK in the intel business and none of them saw the course of events which many on Freepers believe is the case. The intel hitting the desks of President Bush and Prime Minister Brown was not the worse case scenario that many people on here seem to believe. Bad yes, but simply that the Russians were settling the South Ossetian position and humiliating the Georgian forces.
It is the first thing that President Bush would be asking of his intel. What are the Russian plans here? Is this a complete invasion and occupation of Georgia? What are the force dispositions? Are they mobilising strategic reserves for a continued and prolonged conflict? What are their intentions?
The disposition of forces used was insufficient to control or occupy the whole of Georgia for long term. It would be an absolute nightmare for Russia to fund and maintain such an occupation. The level headed intel professionals called it 100% allowing no rash decisions from the politicians.
The last thing that President Bush wants to do is to make that decision of engaging Russian forces, which could rise to all out conflict, simply by misreading what they were up to. You may have saw President Bush visiting the DIA on TV?. It would have been the DIA providing him with all the collated intelligence required to base his decisions on. Cool heads prevailed and thank goodness they did thanks to the intel community.
Are you kidding? I don't believe that for one minute!
Seems to me that an organized psy-op would have to register ahead of time to be effective. Smacks of foreknowledge.
That's because you are supporting the Russians. You were even trying to legitimize Russian bank robbers by claiming that these people with Russian citizenship are somehow different just because they live in South Ossetia. The fact is that these thieves and looters are being enabled and protected by Russian troops actively assisting them.
I support nobody in this conflict.
You do realize that Free Republic allows people to see your past posts so that you can't get away with statements like this, don't you?
I am a retired intel analyst (retired from UK forces)
Somehow I doubt that. British people aren't generally known as Russian sycophants.
I can see that everything you say is purely from a Georgian perpective. The conflict isn’t black and white.
You keep saying that as if repeating it enough can make it true. The facts say that this immediate conflict IS black and white. One of these countries has invaded and is occupying the territory of the other without any legitimate justification. One of these countries has trained terrorists specifically to attack the people and assets of the other country (if you were really an Intel officer like you claim, you would almost certainly be aware of the history here). Perhaps the reason that you can't tell which side is right and which side is wrong is that you lack any moral sense.
Check back my posting history. My view is impartial.
You were supporting bank robbers. That isn't impartial; that is just amoral. It isn't surprising that you can't see this in terms of black and white; you don't seem to have a basic sense of human morality.
Check out the Kosovo threads.
This isn't Kosovo. In that conflict, I asserted that the Serbians were in the right (which they were in that situation, despite any previous misdeeds they might have committed). Vile actions on the part of the Clinton administration does not legitimize Russian atrocities.
The rest of your comments are irrelevant. This invasion isn't an exercise in international political craft, it is nothing more than a criminal exercise by thugs who seem to have enough firepower to get away with their misdeeds. But despite the words of those of you completely lacking a moral compass, just because they can get away with it doesn't make it legitimate.
Well think about it? How are they going to quell a complete nation? The civil unrest alone would be substantial.
Totally incorrect. Apologies for my mix up with CIA/DIA. The headlines says Russian soldiers. Pointing out factual error is not legitimizing or condoning their actions. It would be like Iraq troops filmed in U.S. combat gear and committing a transgretion. Some people would immediately think that they were U.S. troops and comment incorrectly. The headline is completely incorrect, but to some people it doesn’t matter. South Ossetian irregulars don’t come under a Russian Army disciplinary code.
Again totally incorrect on the military situation on the ground. Most people never took a step back, but like you could only see it from one perspective. I don’t condone any action of Russian troops or Abkhazian/South Ossetian paramilitaries or irregulars. I also don’t condone the actions of Georgian irregulars for their part in the conflict as you appear to be doing. Georgian irregulars have blood on their hands in this conflict too which you are seeming to appease just because you believe that their actions have some justification.
An extremely good job that those guiding President Bush didn’t think like some posters on Freepers.
With extreme difficulty. The upgrades on the Scorpion are all internal. It must have been a nightmare for both sides due to their use of Mi-24s and Su-25s. The only way to differentiat is by national markings.
Yes, you are. Apologies for my mix up with CIA/DIA. The headlines says Russian soldiers.
That's because they soldiers who have Russian citizenship and Russian training. They are Russian soldiers.
It would be like Iraq troops filmed in U.S. combat gear and committing a transgretion.
If those Iraqis had US citizenship and US military regulars were providing the sort of support the Russian military is providing, then the US military would be to blame.
Again totally incorrect on the military situation on the ground.
Yes, you are. You are absolutely refusing to admit the facts, which are that Russian military troops are overseeing the looting of Georgia. They are clearing out any resistance, and then allowing the rest of their forces (the "South Ossetian" irregulars as you are calling them, who are people that have been trained by Russia and have Russian citizenship) to move along with them and steal everything in sight.
I also don’t condone the actions of Georgian irregulars for their part in the conflict as you appear to be doing
Typical leftist. When you can't argue the facts you make up your own.
Georgian irregulars have blood on their hands in this conflict too which you are seeming to appease just because you believe that their actions have some justification.
Again, another typical leftist tactic. You seem to think you can get away with asserting some form of moral equivalence between a potential murderer and a victim who successfully resists, or a robber and someone with a gun protecting their own property. As has already been mentioned, the only thing this proves is that you are completely lacking of any moral sense.
Leftist?! Is that the best that you can do? The title of the newspaper is still incorrect. They are NOT Russian soldiers. They are NOT part of the Russian Army. Just because a civilian puts on some combat fatigues, picks up a weapon and goes on a looting rampage doesn’t make him a Russian soldier.
Again another cry of leftist! You are making general assumptions here. Completely incorrect. I have no political affiliations and have never voted as is my right.
Yet again your only line is that the Georgians are completley innocent in all of this. No side in this conflict is innocent. You seem to have your own black and white version of this conflict and can only see the side of the Georgians repulsing a bully and aggressor.
Obviously you believe every single word that Saakashvili utters in countless interviews. Georgian paramilitaries and irregulars are not squeaky clean in this whole affair. Not my fault that you are blinkered to the realities of the situation.
Roger Dat!!!
The Pinkos are loose...:0/
is there a Russian who talks like Oddball?
You're right; I guess calling you a leftist is too good for the amoral invertebrate that you are. At least some leftists actually stand for something, even if it is evil.
The title of the newspaper is still incorrect. They are NOT Russian soldiers
Nonsense. Of course they are Russian soldiers. They are soldiers, and they are Russian citizens. If US national guard troops (which is the closest equivalent of what these criminals are in relation to other Russian troops) were to rob a bank while regular US Army troops provided cover, no sane American would even think to justify their criminal behavior by saying "they aren't American soldiers". As your comments prove over and over again, you are nothing but a Russian sycophant.
Again another cry of leftist! You are making general assumptions here.
Yeah; I'm assuming that people who go so far in defending bank robbers just because they are Russians has a left of center, anti-American agenda.
Completely incorrect. I have no political affiliations and have never voted as is my right.
You've already proven that you are a liar. Why do you think we care that you can't tell the difference between right and wrong in political decisions just as you can't tell the difference in warfare?
Yet again your only line is that the Georgians are completley innocent in all of this.
Your amorality is so complete that it would be laughable if not so ugly. You would equate the actions of a rapist with his victim by asserting that both sides engaged in sexual intercourse, thus there is no way to distinguish who is the criminal.
You seem to have your own black and white version of this conflict
Yeah, I do. It is called REALITY. And the reality is that one country invaded the sovereign territory of the other, after taunting its victim with acts of terrorism for years. Your inability to see that invasion of another country's sovereign territory without a legitimate reason is an act of war. Your weak, amoral character makes your opinion of the situation irrelevant; you are not morally capable of having an opinion worth consideration.
Obviously you believe every single word that Saakashvili utters in countless interviews
I haven't bothered reading a single one of them. I don't care what either side says and am only measuring this conflict by the actions I have seen both sides take. And the actions clear show that Russia is the aggressor. If you removed all those with Russian citizenship from Georgia, then there wouldn't have been any conflict from the beginning. This is ALL the fault of Russia.
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