Posted on 08/14/2008 9:10:19 PM PDT by robertvance
We should not be surprised to hear that three of China’s women gymnasts are not actually old enough to be participating in the 2008 Olympics. After all, the Chinese are good at cheating and they will tell you so unabashedly. Some months ago, I wrote an article entitled Cheating in China — It's an Epidemic in which I explained how cheating is viewed as a way to survive in China. I have had dozens of Chinese students and adults alike tell me that they have cheated often and that they will cheat again if it means that they could 'get ahead' in life. Quite simply, cheating is a part of the culture here and this fact has been confirmed by many of my Chinese students and friends...
(Excerpt) Read more at teachabroadchina.com ...
“Me too. Clearly something was going on, just couldn’t figure out what. Would be nice to find out, but we probably will never be informed what was happening.”
I’ve been searching gymnastics forums but haven’t found anything yet.
My old coach will know the scoop, but I won’t see him for a couple of weeks.
Ok so you want to tell me that most if not all world class women gymnasts are better at 11 than at 16 and are better at 16 than at 20.
I know you won’t say that because there are plenty of counter examples.
I will say that some are better younger and some are better when they get older.
And you know that is true.
And I don’t understand this age limit anyway. US swimmer Donna de Varonna was 13 when she made the US olympic team, 14 year old Michelle Kwan was going to skate until Tonya Harding got reinstated, and of course Nadia performed for Karoli at age 14.
I found that to be the case with Japanese. I worked with some of them in the 90s.
When I was in China, our hosts didn't drink much at all and they had these banquets for us just about every night we were there. The Chinese were very polite but I didn't find them warm. However, as hosts, they saw to our every need and desire and made our visit there as pleasant as they possibly could.
But in our business relations, I did see how deception was just a part of it all and that telling a lie did not seem to be considered a particularly bad thing.
“Ok so you want to tell me that most if not all world class women gymnasts are better at 11 than at 16 and are better at 16 than at 20.”
As everyone matures at different ages I cannot pinpoint the exact year of puberty for everyone, so I have to say this is not what I’m trying to tell you.
I will tell you that when you are specifically talking about bars - the younger you are the easier it is.
Nastia is amazing because she has managed to retain her skill level on bars through the years.
But if you were to ask her when was bars the easiest for her? My bet is it was much easier for her prior to puberty.
In general - it is an advantage to compete on bars prior to puberty.
Being little can be a bit of an advantage on beam (smaller feet) - but not as much as bars.
Most girls tend to get better at vault as they get older (up until their joints start to fall apart).
So - when you have a format where girls can specialize in events (not having to compete on all 4) the Chinese strategy was quite brilliant...they pulled ahead by a full point on bars with their strategy.
Too bad they didn’t play within the rules of the game.
“And I don’t understand this age limit anyway. US swimmer Donna de Varonna was 13 when she made the US olympic team, 14 year old Michelle Kwan was going to skate until Tonya Harding got reinstated, and of course Nadia performed for Karoli at age 14”
well - the biggest problem is that only the honest countries will abide by the rules.
If we were to use the same strategy we would have brought a different team - certainly a different bars lineup.
older girls also have the problem of growing tall, and the onset of their womaness, which changes their body, widens the hips, not to mention pms, and does change center of gravity
maybe some of the younger 16 year-olds haven’t had their onset of womanliness, but for sure the 18 year-olds have
LOL
Something has reaked to high heaven with the judging at these games. The US girls had to do flawless floor routines to make up for all the hacking the judges did to them in the other events. Luckily, they did.
They have been hacking the US and other teams left and right, while china gymnists are doing mistakes that would cause deductions, but score as if they never happened.
This farce is just unreal.
“Also bolstering your argument is that the best Chinese gymnast in the team finals was a verified 20 year old.”
Which means in reality, not chinese gymnist arithmetic, she’s 17.
The younger kids literally know no fear. I remember when I was in the under 15 year age group. Gymnastics is still a game to those girls, and they lack the fear of failure or injury that develops later. Their bodies absorb shock much better and falling doesn’t hurt as much.
But we still took 1st and 2nd. When I watched them on the medals stand I couldn’t help but notice the difference in their physical development. I don’t think the little Chinese girl was over 11 or 12 years old.
The only honor china has is the tradition of honoring itself. They cheat, lie and try to be the conquistidors of the time. They take, but how much have you heard of any charitable leanings toward any peoples that need aid. They supress their peoples rights and let them starve to build up the military. Frankly, they need to sink into the china sea.
“Something has reaked to high heaven with the judging at these games. The US girls had to do flawless floor routines to make up for all the hacking the judges did to them in the other events. Luckily, they did.”
yes - it was a beautiful thing wasn’t it?
It looked like the more they ripped of Nastia - the more mad she got - the better she did.
You could almost hear her say “take that bleepin’ perfect beam routine with no ‘balance checks’ and shove it!”
Nelli Kim has been around for a long time.
I would be surprised if we learned she was the problem.
Somebody somewhere is on the take.
You should reread my statements. I'm expecting woman to beat a girl. I just don't buy the validity of the argument that girls are better adapted to gymnastics than women.
I was referring to your questioning the training American gymnasts get. It’s the best in the world, and we do it without involuntary plucking of toddlers from their parents. Do you see any coaches on the Chinese team not from China? They are wards of the state. The best and brightest of both native born and immigrant Americans come here or stay here for the superior facilities, staff, environment - oh, and the FREEDOM to excel for their own pursuit of happiness.
The argument for the advantage of youth centers around biomechanics; I would think our greater concern would be for the abuse of the competitor’s unformed judgement about risk and the possible outcomes of overextension.
This is a weakness on the American coaching staff. She should have been counseled in poise and concentration to keep her focus on the task at hand and not letting her ego gain control of her attention. This is the problem that faces all kinds of performers. The American girls looked to distracted. Once the adrenalin starts pumping, the mind races out of control unless one had devoted attention to concentrating solely on the task at hand. It's not easy, and that's where the Americans looked weak to me. The scoreboard is no place to for a performer's mind to dwell upon before the challenge.
Phelps coach had Michael practice with squished goggles so that if he had leaky goggles, he could still win anyway which he did in the 200 fly. Also, US basketball players practice free throws with loudspeakers blaring and others behind the backboard doing all kinds of things.
And it only got worse because the judges turned around and hacked Shawn Johnson on the uneven bars as well which destroyed any chance at the gold for her.
The baby chinese gymnist score on the balance beam was some of the worst score juicing I've ever witnessed. The entire routine was filed with balance checks involved on even minor moves. It was like a clinic in balance checking. Her score was a near flawless number.
I believe its becoming obvious that the US females are being held to an impossible high standard, while the host countries females are being provided the benefit of the doubt. I believe the russian girl who placed 4th did a better job than the chinese girl and deserved the bronze.
Nelli Kim did look like she was pissed off by the end of the meet. She's got to be embarrased at the farce that has taken place so far. The last time she walked over to the judges table to tell them to stop hacking away at the scores and get a damn number up there, you could see the total frustration in her face. The bias in judging was so blatant, its making a mockery of the whole thing. I agree. Someone is on the take. It's trainwreck.
I’ll give you that, they did look distracted.
“Luikin’s score on the uneven bars was one of the worst displays of score hacking I’ve ever witnessed.”
absolutely correct.
” It was like a clinic in balance checking.”
And not only that. When you “balance check” in between 2 skills, you are supposed to lose the credit for the connection.
So - not only did they not deduct for the balance checks (which is supposed to be a flat deduction) - they also did not devalue her connection series - another supposedly “flat” deduction.
I saw other posters suggest it was a venezuelan judge that was all over the place.
Maybe this is old cold war politics in a new package.
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