Posted on 08/14/2008 8:51:50 AM PDT by maquiladora
US defence chief Robert Gates has said he sees no prospect of using US military force in Georgia, following its week-long conflict with Russia.
But he warned that US-Russia relations could be adversely affected for years as a result of Moscow's actions.
(snip)
Despite concerns that Moscow may not be keen quickly to leave Georgian territory, Mr Gates said the Russians did seem to be pulling back.
"They appear to be withdrawing their forces back towards Abkhazia and to the zone of conflict... towards South Ossetia," he said.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.bbc.co.uk ...
1. When Jefferson wrote, it took a lot of time to get across the atlantic ocean. There was no weaponry capable of reaching our shores from Europe. Do you think that modern times might cause Jefferson to have a different outlook, considering the vastly different circumstances. He thought of us as miraculously separated and protected from Europe's woes. Hasn't that changed?
2. Had we followed Jefferson's thinking, that would have meant staying out of WW2 and the Cold War. Would those have been correct stances to take?
reports are that Georgia sent a healthy sized military contingent with Gori city officials for handover of the city from the Russians, stand-off occurred and Russians have temporarily decided they aren’t leaving. Just speculating really, but given the Georgian president’s bellicose tone . . .
Brilliant quote, but that was before oil and nuclear weapons.
What does oil and nuclear weapons have to do with it? If anything, these new issues strengthens Jefferson’s insight about the futility of getting involved in foreign quarrels.
We definitely don't need any more fake allies like the Europeans. It's long past time for them to pony up their share of their own defense. OR for them to get used to a thick Soviet boot on their necks. Either way, our decades of protection offered to the Europeans have done nothing but buy them their prosperity at a discount, and breed sniveling contempt for us.
If they are not willing to stand and fight for themselves, I'm quite past the point of caring what happens to Europe. Between the Russians and the Islamification of their lands, they need to buck up and get their act together, because the USAF can't bail them out of everything. If they can't see how the fate of Georgia could be their own, and if they fail to hang together, then let them hang separately.
Taking foreign policy advice from a man dead for 200 years seems unwise to me. We don’t live in the same world as did Jefferson, and I’m quite sure that the political realities we face today in a global economy (like it or not) would have Jefferson thinking a bit differently.
JMO.
So, the Russians invade, then break multiple cease-fires. Georgia then sends military to enforce the Russians’ agreed withdrawal, and a standoff ensues.
Russia breaks the agreement, but it’s the Georgian’s fault?
Do you let bullies steal your lunch money, and think you deserve it?
C’Mon, either we butch up and recognize Russia is bullying, or we’ve become massive wimps. What’s it gonna be?
Makes me wonder...Given his statement, what did Jefferson have to say about the French support we had received in the Revolutionary War?
Jefferson said many things - he also did many things.
And his actions speak louder than his words, especially when his actions were born of hard-learned experience subsequent to his utterances.
Well, Jefferson did not foresee an international issue such as the free flow of a precious commodity such as oil, and neither could he predict the advent of aircraft and rocketry for military purposes and, much less, for the delivery of nuclear weapons.
Being bordered by two oceans does not keep us safe anymore.
Nothing against our founders, but we live in a much different world today then when this nation was founded. We no longer have the luxury of oceans protecting us.
and nothing against Jefferson and our founders.
To expand on my point: we need NATO forces in Georgia right now.
Putting forces in front of the Russians and so stopping them from devouring the whole of Georgia is NOT the same as immediately blazing away with MOABs. The Russians always, ALWAYS advance until met with steel.
The other - not exclusive option - is to “review the Georgians’ military needs”. Oh what a felicitous diplomatic phrase that is. Give the Georgians more tank- and helicopter-killing missiles.
Like the Brits and the French stayed out of WWII?
Yeah, lets just scrap the Constitution while we are at it. It was written by people living in a much different world than today.
hey, i’m with you
all i’m saying is I don’t really think either side wants this to be over
No, I was saying that we can longer afford to be an isolationist country like we where....
Which is an excellent point, insofar as it illustrates that avoiding or engaging in any given war should rest on the merits of that particular conflict. Not what we did in WW I I, or the Cold War, or the Revolutionary War. Nor should it revolve on what we felt a few years ago, because situations change, and rational people adapt to changing situations.
I understand what you were saying and I suppose you are correct to a certain extent. But I tend to err on the isolationist side. The founding fathers were experts on human nature and politcal relationships; human nature has not changed in thousands of years.
Georgia is way too unstable to admit into NATO.
Today American cities can disappear in 30-40 minutes of launch. 5-10 minutes if it's from a Boomer parked off the Atlantic coast.
The age of muskets and breech-loaded cannon are long gone and to apply the wisdom of those days blindly is a major mistake.
I'm pretty sure Jefferson would understand that the world changes. The question is, do you?
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