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To: BroJoeK
So one book has all the answers to the causes of WW I? I don't have to read that book. I've read dozens of other books on the causes, fighting and peace of WWI. The Germans main sin in the causes of starting the war is that they backed Austria Hungary in their agression after the assination just as Russia was backing the Serbs.

Have you ever read about the 10 point ultimatum that Austria Hungary not Germany sent to Serbia? As I said previously, the Kaiser was on his annual vacation cruise at the time this was delivered to Serbia and knew nothing about it and found out while on cruise about it and Serbia's subsequent turning it down. Germany had nothing to do with that other than telling Austria Hungary that they would back them in their actions.

Once Russia mobilized, this brought France into the war due to the Allied Treaty. Germany had forseen this long before, hence the Shifflen plan to quickly knock the Frenchies out of the war. The plan involved invading through Belgium who was nuetral. Once they did this, it brought England into the war through their treaty with Belgium. Unfortunately for Germany, Von Moltke was no Shiefflen and so he did not place enough divisions in the "swinging door" part of the plan through Belgium and screwed it up. The invasion came to a halt at the Marne due to not enough manpower and supplies for the "swinging door" part of the plan or else it would have most likely succeeded.

As soon as the assanation happened, Austrians like the Chief of staff of the Army Conrad von Hoetzendorf wanted to go to war right away. He didn't need prodding from the Germans. All of the major European powers have blame in the causes of WWI. However, the two most responsible are Austria Hungary and Serbia.

You apparently have read one book on the subject and think that is definitive. If it says that Germany is soley to blame for WWI, not only is it not definitive, it is wrong. Either that or every other book and trestise on WWI is wrong. You take your pick. Try reading the Guns of August by Barbara Tuchman or Austria-Hungary and the Origins of the First World War by Sam Williamson.

One last thing, there was a book that came out a few years ago trying to absolve Napolean of any blame for all of the Napoleanic wars. Should I believe that historian also?
596 posted on 08/11/2008 8:53:40 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
One last thing, there was a book that came out a few years ago trying to absolve Napolean of any blame for all of the Napoleanic wars. Should I believe that historian also?

Straw man argument. Now I have not read the book and this is the first time I have heard this position. I find it interesting and worth pursuing the read at least and of course the sources the author sites which is another method to establish if the author actually did a good job or not. Rarely are things as simple as we make them out to be especially with political machinations involved. Germany itself was no saint either with its growing Pan movement (eventually finding fertile ground in Hitler and his ilk and taken to a much uglier level as well later on) which makes this a possibility at least on some level, whether its true or not is another thing to be looked into. Even if true on some level, it could easily find itself crowded out by other immediate factors. We know who Napoleon was which makes it easy to dismiss such arguments and maybe there is a piece of intrigue here or there to be found but no matter how one tries Napoleon was hungry for power. One can argue that the French Revolution lead to Napoleon and many of the problems we face today such as Marxism/Communism of various forms, Fascism, totalitarianism and more but that still doesn't absolve the Jacobins, nor does it absolve Napoleon, or Marx, Lenin, Hitler, or any other madman or utopian. They did their own dirty deeds. To compare the two books and authors lacks any thought, insight, and honesty. At least try to make a rational argument preferably by using the author’s own research against him, i.e. flaws in facts and/or logic. This would make for a much more scholarly approach and debate not to mention if he is wrong it then intellectually puts the idea to rest. Emotionally is another story entirely.
611 posted on 08/11/2008 4:23:43 PM PDT by DarkWaters
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
"You apparently have read one book on the subject and think that is definitive.

If it says that Germany is soley to blame for WWI, not only is it not definitive, it is wrong.

Either that or every other book and trestise on WWI is wrong. You take your pick.

Try reading the Guns of August by Barbara Tuchman or Austria-Hungary and the Origins of the First World War by Sam Williamson."

I've read several books on the subject, including Barbara Tuchman's 1962 "Guns of August," many years ago.

The important point to remember here is that serious new information has come to light since Tuchman wrote in 1962.

Many scholars have worked and contributed to this. Fromkin's book breaks little real new ground -- it mearly summarizes the results from those other historians.

I promise you, if you'll read it carefully, it will open your eyes and change your mind:

Europe's Last Summer, Who Started the Great War in 1914?


624 posted on 08/15/2008 9:58:27 AM PDT by BroJoeK (A little historical perspective....)
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