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To: jmc813; bert
Without respect for basic human rights, capitalism there will fail. I was chatting with one of the most pro-China freepers yesterday, and even he agreed with me that Chinese leadership will never voluntarily recognize these rights. Only through violent revolution or the real threat of it will they. Hopefully that comes sooner than later.

Well, I actually agree with you. But your comments are rather absolute. Do you mean a high tech information economy where China will have a global reach as significant as the aggregate Western World? Yes, eventually, China will have to be a fully democratic country to handle that sort of position. But in the early stages, is it necessary? Today's China exports in one day what they did in all of 1978. So, it must have worked so far. But as its econimic power begins to approach parity with the entire Western World (and I'm guessing around 2040 or so), then yes, they will need to begin that transition into democracy from now and until then.

And there is some push already. You realize there are tens of thousands of protests in China every year. And much of the global focus on China's human rights (though many in China deem it unfairly), in some ways is a blessing in disguise (though that's not the intention of the media for it to be a blessing). There maybe an overthrow, I can't predict, but if there is one, it won't be bannana respublic style or like what happened in Thailand recently. Probably more like S. Korea style in the late 80's.

But my beef has always been: what if China meets the qualifications of a respecter of human rights and eventually develops into democracy? Will those on the FR be supportive of it even if it means China gains parity with the entire Western World? I don't believe so.

Look what's happening in the world right now. Russia just invaded Georgia. I can tell you, had it been China invading Taiwan, the response on this board would have been swarmed with FReepers like never before. As it stands, alot of the responses to Russia's invasion of Georgia is rather tame. Even when compared to detaining of journalists at a Beijing airport :)

161 posted on 08/08/2008 2:25:46 PM PDT by ponder life
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To: ponder life; jmc813

I think folks assume that during the Mao years, all vestiges of prior china were wiped out and forgotten. That is not the case. Under the table there was the old, veryold china that was a nation of small businesses.

Many fled the mainland to Manila, Singapore, Jakarta where they became the Overseas Chineese. They establised large and powerful businesses. Some would say they came to control business. This was certainly true in Manila.

The notion that change in the largest society on earth can come quickly is ridiculous. They haven’t determined yet what they want much less how to go about getting it. They are using what they have to hold things together while consensus is developed.

The resurgance of business and strong capitalism is de facto proof that old line communism is faltering. It is being replaced by both the ancient and completely modern.


162 posted on 08/08/2008 2:48:58 PM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Conservation? Let the NE Yankees freeze.... in the dark)
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