Posted on 08/05/2008 8:08:06 PM PDT by Lurker
Medellin Execute For Rape, Murder of Houston Teens
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(Excerpt) Read more at chron.com ...
Read the Gospel, read St. Paul, read the writings of any saint or Father of the Church, read the Catechism.
Wishing that another person should be damned means wishing that that person should never have any faith, never have any charity. It means wishing that that person reject God definitively. That means wishing that evil happen. Wishing that evil should happen is sinful, by definition!
The State has the right to execute criminals, and citizens have the right to support the State in doing so.
It is no function of the State to send anybody to Hell.
Hell is not a place of temporary punishment, or reform, or a means of protecting society from criminals. Hell is the state of people who have utterly rejected God, irrevocably. Actually hoping that a person should go to Hell is hoping that human being be an utter failure in the only way that ultimately counts.
There’s nothing “conservative” about hoping a person goes to Hell.
He wanted to be an American so bad that he would break laws to be here. When he has to adhere to the law then he’s not so much wanting to be an American anymore.
ROT IN HELL!
He will burn in Hell if that’s what he chooses, and if that’s the case, I have no problem with that.
I’m not particularly forgiving, personally. I was just stating what orthodox Christianity teaches.
I never came up with any ideas, let alone the wallet-card-Constitution thing. Sounds like a great idea, though!
What I’m really famous for is a thread about pinging. And I still am not clear what pinging is.
"Pinging" is calling someones attention to a thread you think they might be interested in.
Hope that helps.
L
What is conflicting to many of us is watching justice subverted while innocent people are hurt and killed.
I know you are right about the Word....we are not to wish people to Hell, it's a real enough place with no exit.
..I too am conflicted when 'right seems wrong, and wrong, right' and they get away with it, for now.
Yes God will sort it out, but we can, as you say, support the State in bringing justice.
This is what conflicts us, as a conservative people, to watch our judicial system implode and feel very helpless.
But yes, you stated scripture correctly.
Texas has an image as a conservative state, but in reality its busting at the seams with liberals.
Its fast becoming one of the most adverse states for small business and homeowners.
Bravo!
However, the Lord cares more for his borders than Bush, McCain, and b'rack care for ours.
> Read the Gospel, read St. Paul, read the writings of any saint or Father of the Church, read the Catechism.
Better still, could you please cite those passages that support your viewpoint? And then reconcile your viewpoint with the Gospel of St John 7:24: “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”
Jesus directs that we are to “judge righteous judgment”. That is does not mean that we are always to acquit.
Our Lord, thru His servant St Paul, goes further, in 1 Cor 6:2-3: “Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?”
> Wishing that another person should be damned means wishing that that person should never have any faith, never have any charity. It means wishing that that person reject God definitively. That means wishing that evil happen. Wishing that evil should happen is sinful, by definition!
Rubbish. Following your logic would make each of us responsible for decisions and sins made by others, and further wishing that God’s Judgment be never visited upon them.
For example, Adolf Hitler made decisions that precluded him from having any faith or charity. He rejected God definitely, and caused evil to happen. The sin is his. I wish him Dam’ned, and have therefore judged righteous judgment. That was and is the only correct answer for Christ’s Servants.
Current example Medellin? Show me his faith or charity. Show me his acceptance of God. Show me that he repented. He did nothing of the sort: he did his best to wiggle out of his just punishment, and tried to rationalize it thru his online blog. He is Guilty of his sins and died with his sins intact and unrepented. Therefore it is perfectly OK to wish him Dam’ned: indeed, that is judging righteous judgment, the duty of all Saints.
In your case, sir, with Respect I suggest that you risk being an apologist for Sinners. That makes you an Enabler.
> Hell is not a place of temporary punishment, or reform, or a means of protecting society from criminals. Hell is the state of people who have utterly rejected God, irrevocably. Actually hoping that a person should go to Hell is hoping that human being be an utter failure in the only way that ultimately counts.
Or merely acknowledging that they are going home, where they belong.
Medellin belongs properly in Hell. The State of Texas bought him a one-way ticket home last nite. The Saints rejoiced.
> There’s nothing “conservative” about hoping a person goes to Hell.
Says you. Stalin? Hitler? Pol Pot? Mao Tse-Tung? Clifford Robert Olsen? Charles Manson? Jeffrey Dahmer? Saddam Hussein and his sons Uday and Qusay? Fidel Castro? I am a Conservative, and I wish all these Evil people in Hell.
And I am a devout Christian. And I have judged Righteous Judgment by so doing. In other words, I have done my job as a Saint.
You, my FRiend, may wish to consider whether you may be at risk of mistaking Compassion — a worthy Conservative and Christ-like virtue — with enabling, tolerating and perhaps facilitating Sin.
For that is where Liberalism begins.
> I have a Montecristo (not from Cuba) in the humidor but it’s waiting for my 65th birthday next month. I’ll settle for my Woodford Reserve tonight...
If your travels ever bring you to Auckland, look me up. We get Cuban cigars here no worries.
I never said that wishing that others be damned CAUSES them to sin.
Your interpretation of my words is bizarre, as is your interpretation of the words in the Gospel.
The punishment that is justly meted out to some people here on earth has nothing to do with the judgments of God, who knows all things.
Jesus said, “Love your enemies. Pray for those who persecute you.” Jesus prayed that the men who crucified Him would be forgiven—which is the opposite of hoping that they would be damned. One of the criminals crucified next to Jesus was saved. The other one apparently was not. But Jesus equally desired the salvation of both criminals.
There is nothing “liberal” about praying for the salvation of everyone, including Hitler, or Ted Bundy, or Medellin. History is full of examples of heinous criminals who give every sign of having repented and responded to grace. Jeffrey Dahmer is a perfect example. He was baptized in prison, which means that all his sins were forgiven. He said he expected to be murdered in prison, and that if this happened, he deserved it.
There are those who say they hope he is in Hell, despite his being baptized and expressing repentance. Such people are not believing, or at least not orthodox, Christians.
We, i.e., society, are within our rights to protect ourselves from criminals. We are not within the scope of human authority to declare that anyone SHOULD be damned, or is damned. Salvation and damnation belong to the judgment of God ALONE, and are completely outside the competence of any human authority to judge.
I'd certainly do that given the chance, and appreciate the offer, but the wife and I aren't World travelers. Our son did give me a Cuban cigar for Father's Day some years ago which I enjoyed greatly. That's been my only experience.
I have to say, however, that Dominican and Nicaraguan cigars are pretty darned good on their own merits. The Montecristos are top drawer in my book.
Ditto!
Yes, good riddance, and long overdue.
All we can know is that Hitler, Pol Pot, Harry Blackmun, Hillary!, etc., lived in this world in the manner that WILL send people to Hell if they die unrepentant. We do not know with certainty that any particular person IS in Hell. And it is sinful to HOPE that anyone is in Hell.
The people who have been disagreeing with me on this appear to think that when I say that we cannot know that Hitler is in Hell, I mean “We don’t know that what Hitler did was really so bad.”
Needless to say, that’s NOT what I mean. What I mean is that what takes place in the intellect and will of another human being is beyond our direct experience, and it is what happens in the intellect and will that sends a person to Hell.
It may turn out that Hitler was utterly insane and delusional from the moment of his birth to the moment of his death, and that he was utterly blameless for every evil action in his entire life, and that he went to his death as sinless as he was on the day of his baptism. In which case, he is in Heaven.
That won’t mean that millions of OTHER people didn’t commit mortal sins, by cooperating in Nazi murders, etc. It won’t mean that anything the Nazis did was good.
It is one thing to uphold authentic moral values. And doing so requires punishment for those who transgress those values in a way that does serious harm to others—like rapist/murderers.
But it is evil and sinful to HOPE that anyone, at the moment of death, die unrepentant, reject God, and suffer in Hell.
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