Want to drive Lefties nuts? Show them that Hitler borrowed the swastika from fellow USSR Socialists

Post Toasties

[Post Toasties]

One can really give the Leftist PC crowd a collective stroke by reminding them of the close relationship that the German National Socialists and the Soviet Communists shared regarding many of their political and sociological ideas and their symbology, particularly but not limited to their earlier days, such as when Adolf Hitler himself, in 1920, adopted the exact same version of the Leftist Swastika as the Soviet Union was using.

Unlike the traditional swastika with which it had little relationship, the Soviet/Nazi fylfot was of a 45 degree clockwise right hand type with particular proportions and had a specific assigned meaning, as it was described as being a stylized crossed letter 'S', representing Socialism.

This provides an excellent refutation of the modern Left Wing dogma that Nazis were right wingers. They were nothing of the sort. Fascism was merely a variant of Left Wing Socialism, just as Communism was.

[InABunkerUnderSF]

Then again, maybe this will help clarify.

It's from "The Life, Times & Confessions of Victor Serge" at : http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/rbr/rbr4_serge.html

The Winter of 1919 was a cold and bitter one. Civil War raged, exiled Russian Aristocrats traded currency with the Tsar still on it, while the Bolsheviks printed it like it was going out of fashion and used it to procure arms. That's right, the Bolsheviks printed money with the Tsar's image on it. As Serge says "we used to print them for the poor fools (Russian Exiles)"

So it may have been printed by the Bolsheviks but still retained all of it's Czarist iconography.

[dr_lew]

There's an account of this in The Occult Roots of Nazism by Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke, pg. 153.

... Frederick Krohn, a Thulean and a member of the Germanenorden since 1913, had earned the reputation of a DAP expert as a result of his collection of some 2,500 books on volkisch subjects for the use of party members. In May 1919 Krohn wrote a memorandum with the title 'Ist das Hakenkreuz als Symbol nationalsozialistischer Partei geeignet?' [ 'Is the swastika suitable as the symbol of the National Socialist Party?' ] ... At the foundation meeting of the local Starnberg group of the NDASP on 20 May 1920, the swastika, originally proposed by Krohn and modified by Hitler, made its first appearance as the flag of the new movement.

[SpaceBar]

Nazism also encorporated textbook fascism, which required industry to produce what the state required for its political agenda, yet still allowed them to profit handsomely from their efforts. I.G. Farben comes to mind.

[Dick Holmes]

Also, the Nazis supported a wide variety of socialist give-away and cradle-to-grave programmes.

So did Bismarck. It's a German thing.

Before anybody gets too thrilled that Hitler was a marxist, remember that he co-opted the little ragtag German Workers Party originally on instructions from the German Army, for which he worked as a spy to infiltrate leftist groups:

The German General Staff also would support the false idea that the army had not been defeated on the battlefield, but could have fought on to victory, except for being betrayed at home, the infamous 'Stab in the Back' theory.

This 'Stab in the Back' theory would become hugely popular among many Germans who found it impossible to swallow defeat. During the war, Adolf Hitler became obsessed with this idea, especially laying blame on Jews and Marxists in Germany for undermining the war effort. To Hitler, and so many others, the German politicians who signed the armistice on November 11, 1918, would become known as the "November Criminals."

After the armistice, the remnants of the German Army straggled home from the front to face tremendous uncertainty.

Germany was now a republic, a form of government (democracy) the Germans historically had little experience or interest in. With the abdication of Kaiser Wilhelm and the collapse of the Hohenzollern Monarchy, the German Empire founded by Bismark in 1871 (The Second Reich) had come to an end.

The new German Republic would eventually have a constitution that made it on paper one of the most liberal democracies in history. Its ideals included; equality for all, that political power would be only in the hands of the people, political minority representation in the new Reichstag, a cabinet and chancellor elected by majority vote in the Reichstag, and a president elected by the people.

But Germany was also a nation in political and social chaos. In Berlin and Munich, left-wing Marxist groups proclaimed Russian-like revolutions, only to meet violent opposition from right-wing nationalist Freikorps (small armies of ex-soldiers for hire) along with regular Army troops.

Communists, Socialists and even innocent bystanders were rounded up and murdered in January 1919, in Berlin, and in May in Munich.

The leaders of the new German democracy had made a deal with the German General Staff which allowed the generals to maintain rank and privilege in return for the Army's support of the young republic and a pledge to put down Marxism and help restore order.

Amid this political turmoil, on June 28, 1919, the Treaty of Versailles was signed by the victorious Allies and was then dutifully ratified by the German democratic government. Under the terms of the treaty, Germany alone was forced to accept responsibility for causing the war and had to pay huge war reparations for all the damage. Germany also had to give up land to France and Poland. The German Army was limited to 100,000 men and was forbidden to have submarines or military aircraft.

The treaty had the effect of humiliating the German nation before the world. This would lead to a passionate desire in many Germans, including Adolf Hitler, to see their nation throw off the "shackles" of the treaty and once again take its place in the world - the "rebirth" of Germany through a strong nationalist government. In years to come, Hitler would speak out endlessly against the treaty and gain much support. In addition, he would rail against the 'November Criminals' and 'Jewish Marxists.'

In the summer of 1919, Adolf Hitler was still in the army and was stationed in Munich where he had become an informer. Corporal Hitler had named soldiers in his barracks that supported the Marxist uprisings in Munich, resulting in their arrest and executions.

Hitler then became one of many undercover agents in the German Army weeding out Marxist influence within the ranks and investigating subversive political organizations.

The Army sent him to a political indoctrination course held at the University of Munich where he quickly came to the attention of his superiors. He describes it in Mein Kampf:

"One day I asked for the floor. One of the participants felt obliged to break a lance for the Jews and began to defend them in lengthy arguments. This aroused me to an answer. The overwhelming majority of the students present took my standpoint. The result was that a few days later I was sent into a Munich regiment as a so-called educational officer."

Hitler's anti-Semitic outbursts impressed his superiors including his mentor, Captain Karl Mayr (who later died in Buchenwald). In August 1919, Hitler was given the job of lecturing returning German prisoners of war on the dangers of Communism and pacifism, as well as democracy and disobedience. He also delivered tirades against the Jews that were well received by the weary soldiers who were looking for someone to blame for all their misfortunes.

An Army report on Hitler referred to him as "a born orator."

Hitler had discovered much to his delight that he could speak well in front of a strange audience, hold their attention, and sway them to his point of view.

For his next assignment, he was ordered in September of 1919 to investigate a small group in Munich known as the German Workers' Party.

[Post Toasties]

If you could show me a Russian banknote with this exact fylfot on it dated from 1916 or earlier, I may be convinced. My research has indicated that these notes were designed and issued after the Czar resigned.

[wastedyears]

There’s absolutely not a single thing “right of politics” about being a fascist.

[SAJ]

With respect, SAM, that is not so. Hitler's NSDAP was wildly nationalistic; the Sovs, and ftm the German Communists in the '20s and '30s, viewed nationalism more or less as a disease, only to be summoned to rally the 'proletariat' in an emergency.

In fact, this very distinction was the origin of the original 'left' vs. 'right' dichotomy, the 'left' being of course 'progressive' and the 'right' rigid and traditionalist.

It was all a crock, of course, but -- just as we see today -- pinning a label on one's opponents has nothing at all to do with accuracy, 'truth', or anything else except perceived political advantage.

Technically, btw, and by strict defintion, our 'friend' Osamabama is politically a Fascist. The Fascists differed from the socialists and state socialists in that the socialists demanded ownership of the means of production, whereas the Fascists only demanded control over the means of production. The Fascists didn't give a hoot for who owned which factory or whatever.

You can find a number of Hitler's speeches, esp at Party rallies in Nurnberg, on the 'Net. Read them, if you get the occasional moment: they are VERY instructive regarding today's politicians.

FReegards!

[InABunkerUnderSF]

BTW, “flag.blackened.net” is a nut ball anarchist web site that Google threw up when I went looking for “early Bolshevik currency”. I do not recommend this web site.

It is interesting though to find that the anarchists are supporting Free BSD. Whoda thunk.

[Greysard]

Interesting. The rest of the lettering on the note is in Cyrillic. Why would "crossed "S' use the roman alphabet?

It doesn't. There is no 'S', it's just an abstract geometric pattern. Consequently this whole thread has only a marginal entertainment value. Many posters already pointed out the real origin of swastika:

Archaeological evidence of swastika-shaped ornaments dates from the Neolithic period. An ancient symbol, it occurs mainly in the cultures that are in modern day India and the surrounding area, sometimes as a geometrical motif (as in the Roman Republic and Empire) and sometimes as a religious symbol. It was long widely used in major world religions such as shamanism.

The 1918 note was probably printed by Lenin and his gang using Czar's designs because Bolsheviks were kind of busy, Civil War and all that. Note that the text says "This bill can be freely exchanged for gold" - that offer didn't last.

On the other side (in your image) the text just says "Forgery is illegal." The two-headed eagle was Czar's symbol for a long time (and now it is back.)

The text is in "old" alphabet, before 1918, when the letter "ѣ" was eliminated by Bolsheviks. It wasn't really necessary anyhow, being indistinguishable from "E" :-)

[InABunkerUnderSF]

Given further (quick) research I’m prone to agree. Note, there is no picture of Nicolas II on the bill, just Czarist iconography. Still, the politics of the period were... a bit fluid.

Are you into coins and currency?

[SolidWood]

So did Bismarck. It's a German thing.

Correct. Statist Socialism is an essential element of German politics from 1870 until now. This however doesn't refute that Hitler was an extreme Socialist. Apart from the Commie GDR, the Third Reich was policy-wise the most leftist state in German history. The state run programs were decidedly socialist and were appraised as such. It was merely with a Nationalist twist and stopped short of total disownment of the (German) proprietors.

(Young) Hitler was originally on instructions from the German Army

The same German Army that helped the Communists under Lenin stage the Russian Revolution two years before. When these loons realized that the Commie Frankenstein they unleashed on others was going to bite themselve they tried to quell it in Germany.

[Post Toasties]

The Wikipedia listing really doesn’t address the content of my post at all either affirmatively or otherwise. For instance, Wikipedia’s only reference to the fylfot and the Soviet Union relates to the WWII period. This is more or less to be expected given Wikipedia’s susceptibility to PC ‘prevailing wisdom’ influenced omissions or editing.

[Post Toasties]

Not specifically. I just stumbled across this illuminating piece of history recently and thought it was worth sharing.

[Post Toasties]

Not with any help from Wikipedia, of course...:)

[endthematrix]

Baathist Iraqi flag

Wahda, Hurriyah, Ishtirakiyah

Wiki:

The Arabic word Ba'ath means "renaissance" or "resurrection" as in the party’s founder Novy Batth’s published works "On The Way Of Resurrection". Ba'thist beliefs combine Arab Socialism, nationalism, and Pan-Arabism. The mostly secular ideology often contrasts with that of other Arab governments in the Arab world, which sometimes tend to have leanings towards Islamism and theocracy. Inspired by a German social democrat slogan [2], the motto of the Party is "Unity, Freedom, Socialism" (in Arabic wahda, hurriya, ishtirakiya). Unity refers to Arab unity, freedom emphasizes freedom from foreign control and interference in particular, and socialism refers to what has been termed Arab Socialism rather than to Marxism.

[Dick Holmes]

(Young) Hitler was originally on instructions from the German Army

The same German Army that helped the Communists under Lenin stage the Russian Revolution two years before. When these loons realized that the Commie Frankenstein they unleashed on others was going to bite themselve they tried to quell it in Germany.

True enough. They let Lenin pass through from Switzerland in a sealed rail car in 1916, hoping he would help destabilize their enemy, Russia. But they, like Hitler, were anti-communist and that was my point.

[Dick Holmes]

I was forgetting, Lenin left Switzerland in 1917, not 1916. In fact, he didn’t have a hand in the Russian Revolution in february 1917, arriving in April to “capitalize” on it after the fact. My bad.

[SolidWood]

True enough. They let Lenin pass through from Switzerland in a sealed rail car in 1916, hoping he would help destabilize their enemy, Russia.

More importantly the German Supreme Army Command fully financed the Russian Revolution.

No one (who is serious about it) denies that Hitler was anti-Communist. But he was still a statist Socialist through and through. It is typical of Socialist tyrannies to openly and brutally persecute other Socialist varieties. Stalin who also had a Nationalistic brand of Socialism killed countless of differing Socialists (mainly internationalist Trotskyists) in his camps and openly propagated against Trotskyism the "heretic brand of Socialism" to Stalin's Soviet Union. The Socialists persecuted and killed by the Nazis were also the non-nationalist, speak internationalist "classical" variety.

[Vince Ferrer]

Swastikas are also a Buddhist symbol. This statue is a huge monument and monastery outside Hong Kong on Lantao island. I would guess that most people in China are not aware of the western aversion to that symbol at all.

Also, just for extra credit, the robes worn by the Ku Klux Klan are not original either. In Spain, they are worn during parades and pilgrimages. In Spain, they are worn during sometimes grueling pilgrimages in order to keep the wearer anonymous, in keeping with what Jesus said in Matthew 6:5-6. For the Klan, of course, the anonymity is for the opposite reason of holiness, that they can get away with committing crimes.

[Greysard]

The Wikipedia listing really doesn’t address the content of my post at all either affirmatively or otherwise.

Wikipedia is not even needed to address the claim of:

the Soviet/Nazi fylfot was of a 45 degree clockwise right hand type with particular proportions and had a specific assigned meaning, as it was described as being a stylized crossed letter 'S', representing Socialism.

This is because:

1. There is no Latin 'S' on the note. There are no latin letters on the note, so why would they be woven into background? The three symbols that you pointed out are just common "good luck" swastikas, without their evil symbology because Hitler was busy in the trenches of WW1 at the time. The note predates NSDAP.

2. This is not a Socialist note. This is Czar's note, which is evidenced by (a) old alphabet and (b) two-headed eagle and (c) lack of sickle and hammer and (d) lack of the new name of the country. For Imperial (Czarist) money look here. For 1918 money the site says:

The so called credit tickets of 1918 were printed using stamps made before the revolution of 1917. Therefore the emblem is still the dual-headed eagle, and not the sickle and hammer, thought without the royal regalia. - just as I conjectured, old designs hastily hacked.

Bolsheviks started printing their own money only in 1919, and it looks different. Only by 1920-1921 the bolsheviks got their act together and engraved some marginally decent banknotes:

The text punched through the note says "SAMPLE".

So my problem with the thread is twofold:

a) The money belongs to Czar and was designed by Imperial artists and engravers. Lenin was in England at that time, drinking beer on party's money.

b) The money predates Hitler. Whoever designed these notes, he couldn't know what *other* meaning this obscure symbol will get in mere 20-25 years.