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Drama on Wikipedia Street
New Energy Times ^ | Mar 10, 2008 | Steven B. Krivit

Posted on 07/29/2008 5:26:03 PM PDT by Kevmo

click here to read article


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Steven Krivit is a Freeper, I'll be pinging him.

The tables do not translate well from the original article into this one, so I deleted the table.

1 posted on 07/29/2008 5:26:03 PM PDT by Kevmo
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To: sbkrivit

For your attention.


2 posted on 07/29/2008 5:26:33 PM PDT by Kevmo (A person's a person, no matter how small. ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo

http://newenergytimes.com/news/2008/NET27.htm#wiki


3 posted on 07/29/2008 5:27:26 PM PDT by Kevmo (A person's a person, no matter how small. ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: All; Uncledave

Note that one of the good things to come out of this is that the Pure Energy Systems Wiki page has been much more active and attracted some high quality technical talent.

http://peswiki.com/energy/Main_Page

PESWiki.com — Pure Energy Systems Wiki — your publicly editable site about new energy technologies. Power to the people!

Main Page
From PESWiki
PESWiki is guided by the New Energy Congress, a network of 40+ energy professionals who are dedicated to clean energy technology advancement. Both the NEC and Pure Energy Systems (PES) Network (http://pureenergysystems.com) were founded by Sterling D. Allan, CEO. Many others knowledgeable in the industry also help make this site what it is — a movement for identifying and promoting the best clean energy technologies.

Welcome to PESWiki
The community-built resource that focuses on
alternative, clean, practical, renewable energy solutions.

As of Tuesday, July 29, 2008, there are 3083 articles on
free and renewable energy that anyone can edit!


P.S. Pinging Uncledave for Renewable Energy Ping list.


4 posted on 07/29/2008 5:32:31 PM PDT by Kevmo (A person's a person, no matter how small. ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo
The core of the dispute appears to stem from the viewpoint of some editors that cold fusion is merely a footnote in the history of pathological science and nothing more, though they lack evidence to support their view. These editors have had difficulty supporting their position because other more-informed editors have followed news and read the latest published papers on the subject; they present a strong case that the field is a legitimate science. However, logic, thus far, does not appear to have prevailed.

Stopped reading right there, cold fusion is a hoax.

5 posted on 07/29/2008 6:12:27 PM PDT by eclecticEel (men who believe deeply in something, even wrong, usually triumph over men who believe in nothing)
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To: eclecticEel

cold fusion is a hoax.
***Then how do you account for the fact that excess heat has been replicated in such electrolysis systems dozens of times in peer reviewed journals? The latest was Dr. Arata in Japan, one of the most respected physicists of his generation in that country.


6 posted on 07/29/2008 6:16:01 PM PDT by Kevmo (A person's a person, no matter how small. ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: eclecticEel

Whatever happened to Inslaw? Talking about total hoaxes.


7 posted on 07/29/2008 6:18:27 PM PDT by bvw
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To: bvw

I don’t know what Inslaw is or was. Please answer my question.


8 posted on 07/29/2008 6:29:31 PM PDT by Kevmo (A person's a person, no matter how small. ~Horton Hears a Who)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: Kevmo

wikipedia is weird.


10 posted on 07/29/2008 6:32:56 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (reviewing my list of worse case scenarios.)
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To: Kevmo
Rare fact: Did you know that there is at least one strange radionuclide -- I forget which -- that changes its decay rate with temperature?

Sure, something like a cold fusion might also occur. Doesn't look sustainable though.

11 posted on 07/29/2008 6:39:20 PM PDT by bvw
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To: bvw

Rare fact: Did you know that there is at least one strange radionuclide — I forget which — that changes its decay rate with temperature?
***No, Didn’t know that. Fascinating.

Sure, something like a cold fusion might also occur. Doesn’t look sustainable though.
***What would be the wise approach to sustainability? Since there have been palladium/Deuterium electrolysis excess heat experiments that have lasted more than 50 hours, and the $Billion Tokomak reactor-type fusion experiments attain maybe 50 milliseconds of fusion, that’s about 9 or 10 orders of magnitude more sustainable, and one heck of a lot more cheaper.


12 posted on 07/29/2008 6:51:51 PM PDT by Kevmo (A person's a person, no matter how small. ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo
What fusion approaches have a chance?

IMO, a multi-mile linear plasma in space at an L point. Maybe, maybe heavy water bubble implosions.

The rest -- not doable.

13 posted on 07/29/2008 6:59:37 PM PDT by bvw
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To: bvw

It’s interesting to watch the criticism of cold fusion go from “hoax” to “not sustainable” to “not doable” compared to other more recent fusion advances, some of which were built upon the knowledge developed by Pons & Fleishman.


14 posted on 07/29/2008 7:11:31 PM PDT by Kevmo (A person's a person, no matter how small. ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo

Well, maybe I’m not quite including cold fusion, because while IT might be not doable, once understood it may be we can build a working bubble implosion reactor, using that understanding.


15 posted on 07/29/2008 7:16:05 PM PDT by bvw
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To: Kevmo
It’s interesting to watch the criticism of cold fusion go from “hoax” to “not sustainable” to “not doable”

I was the "hoax" person, my original assessment was correct when I said it and it's still correct. Pons & Fleishman were hucksters; they falsified their research and were ridiculed when no one else could repeat their experiment. I'm not going to try and prove that to you:

1) because I don't care that much

2) there's not a single reputable scientists the world over that would touch the subject (and no, a half-senile Japanese retiree that no one's ever heard of doesn't count). The burden of proof lies squarely on the shoulders of the cold fusion quacks - to do the one thing they can't do - actually create cold fusion.

3) and I know that no amount of reason or argument is enough to convince some people.

16 posted on 07/29/2008 8:34:43 PM PDT by eclecticEel (men who believe deeply in something, even wrong, usually triumph over men who believe in nothing)
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To: Kevmo

The sad thing is that these people don’t know how stupid they are, and there is no way to make them know.


17 posted on 07/29/2008 8:37:07 PM PDT by Born to Conserve
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To: SirKit

PESWiki sounds interesting.


18 posted on 07/29/2008 9:59:53 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: Kevmo

John Edwards Protected From Editing on Wikipedia ... discussion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:John_Edwards


19 posted on 07/29/2008 10:02:57 PM PDT by BunnySlippers
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To: eclecticEel

1) because I don’t care that much
***But that doesn’t stop you from seagulling on this thread, does it? I suppose, in a way, it does mean that you do care.

2) there’s not a single reputable scientists the world over that would touch the subject (and no, a half-senile Japanese retiree that no one’s ever heard of doesn’t count).
***OK, how about the former Chairman, India
Atomic Energy Commission: M. R. Srinivasan ‘. . . There is some science here that needs to be understood.
We should set some people to investigate
these experiments. There is much to be
commended for the progress in the work.
The neglect should come to an end’.

As for the ‘senile’ Arata, I’d listen to him much sooner than to you. You don’t have a building named after you, after such a distinguished scientific career, do you? How is it that I know so much about a crackpot like you, when I’ve never even met you?

3) and I know that no amount of reason or argument is enough to convince some people.
***After dozens of replications in peer-reviewed journals, no amount of reason or argument would convince you, which is the level of haughtiness that’s been called “pathological disbelief”. For those who would like to explore further, check out the excellent scientific progress being generated in Low Energy Nuclear Reactions:
http://www.lenr-canr.org/


20 posted on 07/29/2008 10:13:54 PM PDT by Kevmo (A person's a person, no matter how small. ~Horton Hears a Who)
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