Posted on 07/29/2008 2:58:35 PM PDT by Sopater
Onerous? Not really. The ones we took took a whole Saturday and $60 per child. A decade ago. It can be a considerable expense. Now I think some homeschoolers were permitted to take the assessment that the local schools gave but most of us chose to take a different test that we thought was better (1 day as opposed to 3, and more focused on assessment).
I do have a knee jerk reaction against more regulations but I’m more in favor of once a year or less testing than of anything else.
$60 each?? Good grief!
I do think that if homeschoolers are required to take a test, they ought to be given the option of taking the one the local district takes at no charge.
In my state, we oppose testing, too, because what our children study can be completely different than what schoolkids their age are studying at the same time.
For example, one of my sons started at a higher level math and worked backwards. He learned algebra at age six before he learned to tell time and count money. Unusual? Yes. But every child is unique.
It is ironic how teachers and teachers’ unions fight against testing and the NCLB, but for some reason they believe homeschoolers need to be brought in and tested. As you pointed out, we homeschoolers do test our children and sometimes pay to have them tested independantly. We’re being responsible for our own families. The public schools need to be held accountable to us because we pay their bills, not the other way around.
I’m glad to hear PA homeschoolers oppose those regulations, too. I was given a different impression from a couple of homeschool moms I knew (in Real Life). I’ve read about some of the problems there with the regulations. Btw, thanks for the freepmail, and I sent you one, too.
As a PA homeschool graduate - everyone hated those laws. Everyone. Maybe some of the Philly area hippy-dippy types were ok with it, but I grew up near Pittsburgh and come evaluation season, the moms did nothing but grumble.
Ever try to keep a portfolio of work for five kids working at five different levels? For a year? To show “constant improvement” throughout the year? It was easily 40 hours of work per kid at the end of the year for moms to assemble those things.
Hey, some people think that public school teachers ought to do that for every single student, and have each student working at his or her individual level.
Can you imagine trying to do it for 150-180 students per year?
I believe you. I assemble records for my kids on my own even though our state doesn't require me to, and it's a big job, especially when you include all the details.
Teachers should be required to keep records because they are being paid to do it. It is part of their job. But, requiring parents to do so, especially when they want nothing to do with the school system, is all about state control of the children.
40 hours per student? 150 students per year?
Do the math. 40 hours is one work week. There are only 52 weeks in the year.
How tired of taxes do you want to be?
40 hours per student? 150 students per year?
That many hours are not required per student for a teacher to keep records because the teacher's students are in the same class covering the same subjects and material. For homeschool families, the children are (usually) working at different levels with different books and materials.
Also, different people are contributing to a student's school records. Homeschool records can be far more cumbersome, depending on state requirements, and one parent is keeping track of everything - all subjects.
Now, if the students each were doing individual work in school, as I see your post #46 mentions above, the teachers might have some extra work to do. I do think it could be manageable, though, depending on the system and how it is set up. I remember posting an article here about a school that decided to try it, as a matter of fact.
Btw, in my high school many moons ago, my math classes were self-teaching, independent study classes. We taught ourselves algebra and geometry and worked independently. Each student tested whenever ready. Only one teacher would sit in the class, available to answer questions if needed. So, though we were working and progressing individually, the teacher only had to make check marks and write down scores. Most of the time, the teacher sat there bored.
One more thing I want to add: The two women I knew who were satisfied with PA regulations were traditional Christian homeschoolers. One gave me the impression that the "hippy-dippy types" were the ones who opposed the legislation. I'm glad to hear that wasn't exactly the case.
Excellent point. Thank you, I should have thought of that.
Homeschool records can be far more cumbersome, depending on state requirements, and one parent is keeping track of everything - all subjects.
That seems crazy to me. What's wrong with just giving a test such as the SAT9 or ITBS every year or so?
Only one teacher would sit in the class, available to answer questions if needed...Most of the time, the teacher sat there bored.
Sound as if it would work well for intelligent, motivated students, but it does sound like a boring job for the teacher.
It has nothing to do with any of that. There is only one factor that they care about and that is MONEY. It's all about butts in seats and the cash that they generate. Nothing more.
The best part is, PA requires both - portfolios reviewed by “certified teachers” every year, and tests in at least 3rd, 5th and 8th grades. We took ITBS. They also required a log showing all work done on a daily basis for at least 180 instructional days per year. That was a pain.
I think Iowa’s not much better. How I’d love to live in a state with a test-only or even no-report regulations when it comes time.
“State” Board of Education is a joke, right? DC is not a state. But, given the DC Public Schools astronomically high rankings, and record of notable achievement, they should insist all students attend their institutions.
Need I say /sarc?
Personally, I'm extremely skeptical about that...one of the former HSINOs I know showed up in my classroom one year with no previous school records other than a statement by a "certified teacher" that the child's portfolio had been reviewed by said teacher, and the student was doing a "great job!"
The student was working far below grade level, and I think failed every academic class that year. I'm not sure what that certified teacher reviewed, or what grade level/subject the teacher was certified in. An ITBS score or two would have given me some idea what the student's academic strengths and weaknesses were, however.
They also required a log showing all work done on a daily basis for at least 180 instructional days per year. That was a pain.
That does seem like a pain, and largely unnecessary.
I’m not sure the rules in your state, but in PA, the parents could choose who to have evaluate their kids’ work. Homeschool groups always knew someone who had a certificate, or a really friendly teacher, to go to. Some ladies had a nice little chunk of income every April.
The thing is, the portfolio is supposed to show constant improvement in PA. Whether or not the kid is at grade level is largely irrelevant if they are improving over the course of the year. It’s actually part of what makes keeping the portfolio a pain. You can’t just take samples of the work at the end of the year. You have to keep pretty much all of it, then winnow down to a set of stuff that demonstrates improvement over the year.
I am not sure whether, with all that, the school districts in PA have any authority to step in if they feel a child is not at the right level.
If you’re interested, http://www.hslda.org/laws/default.asp is a great link. It’s a map of the whole country, color coded by the severity of the state’s homeschool law. Clicking on a state takes you to a page with a 2 page pdf summary of that state’s law.
I like the map below better because you can click on a state, and it will take you to a quicker summary of the laws (no PDF):
http://www.youcanhomeschool.org/starthere/info.asp
What a difference between your state (which is where I grew up):
http://www.youcanhomeschool.org/starthere/info.asp?State=PA
And mine:
http://www.youcanhomeschool.org/starthere/info.asp?State=NJ
The former-PA homeschool mom I knew who moved to NJ - the one who preferred PA regulation - said she found the PA system easier because she liked having guidelines and guidance. I haven’t talked with her in a couple of years, though, so she might’ve changed her mind. (Last I checked, her children were doing well, and the eldest was in college at age 15, which is typical here.) She may have learned eventually to appreciate the flexibility here.
I have known a few moms who did like having guidelines. I think that’s silly. You can always find guidelines. No need to have them imposed.
Ouch, Iowa’s laws are painful too.
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