Posted on 07/22/2008 11:27:48 AM PDT by LibWhacker
I disagree with you. They have no place in the military. The reason wars are fought is to kill the enemy, and they will damn sure be trying to kill us. There will be no situation when our soldiers would go into a building facing "non-lethal" weapons, we would be facing AKs or something similar and our guys would have dial a prayer rounds set for annoy or something similar. This is pure BS. In law enforcement there are very, very few incidents where non-lethal weapons should be used and they would probably be over used, witness the taser, which is used far to often, sometimes on children. Either you need to shoot or you don't . In the past law enforcement arrested many people without shooting and without tasers or rubber bullets, they need to go back to that.
And lord knows, the military never has to deal with riots, violent protests and stuff.
Looks a bit like a chihuahua getting intimate with a rottweiler.
It would be nice to have a rifle you can "turn up to eleven" if you suspect your enemy is wearing body armor.
“It would be nice to have a rifle you can “turn up to eleven” if you suspect your enemy is wearing body armor.”
Penetrating armor has more to do with projectile composition than velocity. Bullets designed for this tend to do less damage on unarmored combatants. Both the current M4/M16 ammunition (M193 & M855) have similar velocities. One has a lead core which tends to fragment, while the latter has a steel core, designed to go through light body armor or a helmet at range.
Always pick the right tool for the job. These ‘one-size-fits-all’ gimmicks are just that. They wind up doing everything poorly instead of a few things well.
well, yeah but usually those people shoot back. not like here in the states where it’s stupid rich college kids. can’t mow them down! we don’t want neil young to write another song about it.
The PC Army... “Stop terrorist or I’ll have to tickle you with this bullet.”
Did anyone besides me notice that this is supposed to be powered by hydrogen generated by electrolysis? I mean come on, good luck with that.
me want a round to go sub-sonic......puhleeze!!!
This would be a cool weapon. The MSM doesn't realize that a "slow" bullet kills you, but if it doesn't break the sound barrier.... well that's just gravy....
LMAO
The MBA Gyrojet was conceived by Robert Mainhardt and Art Biehl. They formed MBAssociates or MBA. First off, The gyrojet is not a firearm in the conventional sense. It’s ammo was a 13mm stainless steel armor piercing rocket. Later models were made in 12mm to comply with civilian guns having a max of .50 cal. Both pistol and carbine versions were available in different finish/price levels.
The pistol (well use that for our purposes here) is about the same size as a Colt 45, but it is very light, about 22 oz. When holding it, the stamped steel/alloy construction combined with all the vent holes make you feel as if this were a toy and incapable of holding up to the pressure of being a firearm. Well, you’re right, because the Gyrojet isn’t a firearm in the conventional sense.
When a conventional gun is fired, all the pressure from the exploding powder is held in the chamber/barrel. This pressure is what pushes the bullet forward and why as soon as a bullet leaves the barrel, it starts loosing velocity.
The Gyrojet round is pushed by burning solid rocket propellant that is contained within the projectile, so therefore all the pressure is contained by the “bullet” and not by the gun. This also means that muzzle velocity/energy sucks, about 860 ft/sec. Like most rockets however, the longer the burn, the faster the projectile goes. This means at about 100 yards, the velocity is screaming supposedly at 100 yards it is about 50% more powerful than the .45.
Loading/shooting the Gryojet is an experience. To load it, one slides the top cover of the receiver, pushed all 6
rounds in from the top and quickly slid the door shut again. there ew no magazine or feed lips like a semi auto, so all the rounds want to fly back in your face if you are not fast. For anyone familiar with the M-1 Garand, imagine trying to load it without the EN-Bloc clip to hold the bullets in place.
With rockets in place, the pistol is cocked for the first shot via a cocking lever that is pushed forward and down.
This lever is on the left side of the frame just above the trigger. The rocket leaving the barrel cocks the hammer for the subsequent shots. When the trigger is pulled, there is not the noticeable bang of a gun. The Gyrojet just makes a small crack then a hiss as the rocket goes off. Shake and open beer can to hear this noise.
Reports of the time show the gyrojet had some decent accuracy among those who tested (note: I have held these guns, but never fired one due to lack of 12/13mm rockets at my local Wal-Mart). Instead of conventional rifling, the Gyrojet used multiple angled exhaust ports to spin the projectile as it traveled thru the smooth barrel. this produced great accuracy, but it was also one of the downfalls of the design.
MBA originally produced this weapon for use in Vietnam, and that’s where some of the downfalls were seen. Rocket fuel (solid type) didn’t always like humid weather, so misfires or not getting a 100% burn was a problem, though an infrequent one. Another problem was the slight chance of fouling of the exhaust ports. Remember they provided the rifling, so a fouled port could cause a wobbling path and nasty accuracy problems. biggest drawback was that the rocket burning could leave a trail back to the shooter. Not good in combat.
After a thousand or so were produced, it seemed that the world was happy to stick with gunpowder. The Gyrojet disappeared, but due to its mention in war games like “Delta Green” interest is picking up in the real thing.
Gyrojet pistols in plain black finish are going for about $650 to about $1,500 for the gold presentation model. Carbines are goin for between $900 and $1,700. Last time I found ammo, it was in 1999 for about 30 a box. I personally would not recommend firing one anyhow as with no support for the Gyrojet, I don’t even know who would be qualified to see if it’s safe to shoot. But, if you want a real neat piece of firearms history, this is a neat one to hang on the wall.
Thanks for the info. I do like my explanation more, though. ;^)
Not every mission the military has is war. Stability and support operations require more options than full up high-intensity warfare.
It's always better have more options than fewer.
In Kosovo, in Bosnia, in Afghanistan, in Iraq, the US military is frequently called on to perform crowd control. Using lethal force in those circumstances would not further the mission objectives.
Over the last few years, the US has done a lot of crowd control in Iraq; it is one of the first and fastest duties to be handed over to Iraqi forces, for pretty obvious reasons. But it's still an important component of the training and equipment.
None of which is an endorsement of this particular engineering approach. I don't know if it will work, but as long as the cost isn't too high, I like to see our military thinking outside the box. It's a toy? So were the wheel, gunpowder, helicopters, and radio-controlled aircraft.
That’s just wrong.
I live the fact that it’s painted in camo, so it can blend in.
The ammo.
pzh_155mm_m109 is the previously-standard German self-propelled M109 Howitzer, being replaced by pzh_155mm_m2000.
schalldaempfer is the German language term for silencer or muzzleblast suppressor.
Meppen is the German Army Ordnance proving ground in northern Germany, with facilities for testfiring everything from small arms to self-propelled 155mm howitzers, plus a few other noisy toys. It's the German equivalent of our Aberdeen Proving Ground, and they can touch off their big stuff without upsetting their neighbors.
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