Posted on 07/19/2008 5:08:23 PM PDT by Interposition
The Constitution was written to secure rights "for ourselves and our posterity," which means, our offspring not yet born. It took an Amendment to extend legal recognition to the human status of African ex-slaves. Our own children's human status may require another.
Natural Law, I largely agree.
Just like Catholicism or the Pope in Rome? No. Just no.
BTW, in an uneven and erratic way, the child before birth is accorded some legal status at some times and in some places. For instance, an unborn child can be a named beneficiary of an insurance plan (I know one); a named individual consumer of medical services; a plaintiff in a liability case; and an heir of real property.
I wish you the best success in this endeavor.
I’ve heard her say that abortion should NEVER be allowed, even to save the life of the mother.
She makes pro-ife people look insane.
“Natural Law, I largely agree.
Just like Catholicism or the Pope in Rome? No. Just no.”
Yes, just yes. Do a search about Catholicsim and Natural Law, and, the Pope is Catholic, and he believes in Natural Law, as well.
The Ten Commandments also are based on Natural Law.
“I’ve heard her say that abortion should NEVER be allowed, even to save the life of the mother.”
btw, can you name an instance where abortion would save a mother’s life?
I have read about cases of LEGAL abortion that KILLED the mother, as well as the baby.
Even if there was a case in which this might happen - the murder of the child would be grossly immoral and this practice sanctioned by the state would reveal a satanic control of affairs.
A mother should never kill her babies. No exceptions. Thousands of mothers have died rather than allow their child to be killed by its enemies. To do so as an act sanctioned by the State leaves one aghast.
Abortion is not even biblically permissible in so-called “life of the mother” cases. We should not follow situational ethics, or the advice of the medical community, personal opinion, to make life and death decisions concerning our unborn children.
To a raving moonbat liberal baby killer, that's called "taking one for the team"
“can you name an instance where abortion would save a mother’s life?”
The reason I said that is because some people use it as a talking point, and I was trying to show that it is a weak talking point.
Well of course you are right Sun...it is the weakest argument and those using it should hang their heads in shame.
The "states rights" advocates who want the state to have the right to take away the God-given rights of the unborn are the same evil confederate scum who put their "freedom" to enslave their fellow man above this nation and above the Laws of God. God judged them and he will judge their modern-day baby-killing counterparts as well.
I’m a NICU nurse; yes, there are cases where a mother develops very high blood pressure, and the baby has to be taken early, which sometimes results in his demise.
If a condition happens really early, yes, the baby has to be taken.
If you think this is wrong, so be it; tell it to her husband and her other children.
Thank you!
This is a clear case of "double effect" and has at no time, never, been considered murder, neither in criminal law nor in Church law.
The intention is to save them both patients if possible. If the labor is induced early (which happened to me as a result of pregnancy-induced hypertension) the doctor is still trying to save both mother and baby.
Sometimes they can postpone the pitocin drip or the Cesarean until the baby's lungs and other organ systems are developed enough to for the baby to survive: in borderline cases, they'll have the Neonatal ICU all ready and work like mad to protect both patients' halthand well-being.
In any case, killing the baby is not the intent --- the intent is to do what is possible for each and every patient.
Isn't that so?
And that's why a preterm delivery that sadly ends up with the baby's demise, is never considred murder. As in "issue," that's a non-starter, a red herring.
From the mid-1800's until 1967, most, and then finally all the states of the US banned criminal abortion in their law codes. In no case was there ever a prosecution for natural miscarriage, even if the mother were arguably negligent (e.g. chronic drunkenness during pregnancy.)
You forget that mens rea -- the Latin term for "guilty mind" -- is usually one of the necessary elements of a crime. This is absent in any case where miscarriage results from anything except an abortive attempt.
Furthermore, law enforcement requires the willingness of a prosecutor to prosecute. No prosecutor --- and I mean none of them --- wants to investigate miscarriages. In the real world, it's simply an impossibility. And that evaluation is based on U.S. experience for over 100 years.
If the Catholic church said that “1 + 1 = 3” and a teacher was hired to teach “1 + 1 = 2”, then he must teach that. I have no problems with a man of God saying he doesn't use the Bible or the Catholic church's teaching to interpret cases."
This is not a situation where the Catholic Church or the Bible are needed to establish by supernatural revelation that child is a human being, whether that child has been born or is in the womb traveling towards birth. It is not a matter of "revelation" or "religious authority" because the fact is well-attested-to by the rapidly developing sciences of embryology and perinatology.
It is not unreasonable to demand that the law conform to the advances of scientific knowledge.
That's perfectly true as it applies to airplane tickets, motel occupancy, and the U.S. Census; but all OB/GYNs know that they are caring for 2 patients. In the case of twins, 3.
Felons can be prosecuted for a double murder if they kill a pregnant woman and the child within her.
That's not counting pregnant women twice. That's counting the woman once and the child once. That's saying everybody counts.
"Don't know much about history," as the song says: but in your case, the problem area seems to be biology. There is no medical textbook, perinatalology syllabus, or med school course of instruction anywhere that teaches that a child growing en ventre sa mere is a parasite. This is because...
Parasitism is a type of symbiotic relationship between organisms of different species in which one, the parasite, benefits from a prolonged, close association with the other, the host, which is harmed. ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasite
"But .. the child is a human being even before it’s born .. and should be protected."
Your bottom line is in good shape. So you don't have to stay after school. Class dismissed.
You are essentially correct, but there are times when a baby is taken too early to have a chance. I still don’t see it as murder, but evidently some people on this forum do.
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