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Stalin and Tsar Nicholas II neck and neck for title of greatest Russian
Times of London ^
| 07/16/08
| Tony Halpin
Posted on 07/15/2008 5:34:38 PM PDT by TigerLikesRooster
click here to read article
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To: Kolokotronis; eleni121; FormerLib
21
posted on
07/15/2008 7:01:13 PM PDT
by
MarMema
(kosovo will always be Serbian)
To: Rosemont
Stalin is not a Georgian name, and he turned away from his country and people, preferring to be Russian and choosing a Russian name.
They probably like it that he preferred them to the Georgians.
22
posted on
07/15/2008 7:06:38 PM PDT
by
MarMema
(kosovo will always be Serbian)
To: Clemenza
It is true, they are very eastern. Much of it is because their culture was shaped by the Eastern Orthodox Church.
23
posted on
07/15/2008 7:07:29 PM PDT
by
MarMema
(kosovo will always be Serbian)
To: MarMema
Lets not forget the influence of the "Old Believers", and what was for many years a closer contact with Tatars, Kazars, Persians, etc. than with western Europe.
By contrast, it could be said that Poles are a westernized slavic people, due to both the influence of the Catholic Church, and the historic relations with France and the Holy Roman Empire versus with its neighbors to the east.
24
posted on
07/15/2008 7:10:59 PM PDT
by
Clemenza
(We are a REPUBLIC, not a "Will of the People" Mobocracy)
To: TigerLikesRooster
that’s funny!
i remember posting last year my observation of a russian immigrant that
was wearing a stalin t-shirt, and
i was told sharply that i didn’t know russia!
25
posted on
07/15/2008 7:12:41 PM PDT
by
ken21
(people die and you never hear from them again.)
To: Clemenza
FWIW, a fellow who agrees:
Let it be clearly understood that the Russian is a delightful person till he tucks his shirt in. As an Oriental he is charming. It is only when he insists upon being treated as the most easterly of Western peoples, instead of the most westerly of Easterns, that he becomes a racial anomaly extremely difficult to handle. The host never knows which side of his nature is going to turn up next. Kipling, The Man Who Was.
26
posted on
07/15/2008 7:15:22 PM PDT
by
dighton
To: dighton
Kipling was very much correct. Tsar Peter I and Catherine both tried to westernize Russia, but, IMHO, had the same mixed success as Ataturk did in Turkey.
27
posted on
07/15/2008 7:19:49 PM PDT
by
Clemenza
(We are a REPUBLIC, not a "Will of the People" Mobocracy)
To: TigerLikesRooster
No question - Ivan IV!
He perfectly epitomizes the Russian ruler.
Stalin comes close.
28
posted on
07/15/2008 7:25:05 PM PDT
by
headsonpikes
(Genocide is the highest sacrament of socialism.)
To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
My family was a wedding present to Catherine the Great, so she is not exactly high on our favorite Russians (although to be fair, it was her father who gave his excess serfs away).
In fact, she ranks right up there with Stalin, who forcibly exiled everyone who still lived in Huck (now named Splavnucha) to Siberia and then had the tombstones in the cemetery torn up to erase all evidence of the village's previous inhabitants.
29
posted on
07/15/2008 7:26:42 PM PDT
by
Stonewall Jackson
(Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory. - George Patton)
To: Rosemont
Why would the Russians select a Georgian over a Slavic Russian?
- Racism is not very strong in Russia, mostly because (until the last decade or so) there was no reason for animosity toward "foreigners".
- In Soviet Union children were taught internationalism and cooperation with "other" people, be they within the country or outside (like Angola.)
- Stalin's murders were not wide known. Talking about them would be a sure way to learn about them from the inside of Gulag.
- Stalin's bloody war mistakes were not talked about either (like trying to retake Kharkov before being ready). After Stalin's death and Khruschev's actions the knowledge started to spread, but only to those who wanted to listen.
- Stalin's law and order were essential during the war itself; many are sure that without Stalin literally threatening managers with a gun there wouldn't be enough military goods produced to win the war. After the war, when many gangs were formed by former soldiers used to killing, Stalin had no qualms to order these gangs rounded up and destroyed by any means necessary. This movie is quite illustrative on the subject of post-war crime.
- Stalin's strict socialism after the war created an illusion of equality and plenty. To that end, people who were "more equal than others" did not mingle with commoners. Stalin built some impressive skyscrapers in Moscow for the privileged workers, for example.
- The grass is always greener elsewhere, and everything in the past was far better than today. But we know that already :-)
30
posted on
07/15/2008 7:34:28 PM PDT
by
Greysard
To: Stonewall Jackson
Catherine II “the Great” was a German princess who only learned to speak Russian after moving to Russia.
To: TigerLikesRooster
Not Peter the Great? Not Tolstoy or Pushkin? Are Russian schools failing as badly as ours?
At least Brezhnev or Gorbachev isn't winning.
32
posted on
07/15/2008 7:40:02 PM PDT
by
Petronski
(Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
To: IronJack
Tsar Nicholas wasn't much of a ruler. He pretty much squandered the throne left him by his father, Alexander, and managed to alienate just about everybody when he married a German duchess. His hemophiliac son was seen as a righteous curse for bringing in an "outsider."Didn't most of the Tsars going back to the 18th century marry German princesses. I read about the Tsars family would travel around Germany looking for wives for the sons in the family.
33
posted on
07/15/2008 7:43:47 PM PDT
by
C19fan
To: TigerLikesRooster
STALIN KICKED THE BUCKET
Old Joe kicked the bucket, he’s long gone
He won’t worry us from now on
He lived in a place they call Moscow
His number came up and he had to go
Yes, old Joe’s dead and gone
He stayed around too long
And nobody now can save his hide
‘Cause old Joe laid right down and died
Old Joe won’t worry us no more
He killed the helpless by the score
Now I hope he’s satisfied
Since old Joe’s taken his last ride
Yes, old Joe’s dead and gone
He stayed around too long
And nobody now can save his hide
‘Cause old Joe laid right down and died
While near the end, he couldn’t talk
Was paralyzed and he couldn’t walk
He died with a hemorrhage in the brain
They have a new fireman on the devil’s train
Yes, old Joe’s dead and gone
He stayed around too long
And nobody now can save his hide
‘Cause old Joe laid right down and died
Although he was a man of power
He was scared of Eisenhower
So now the devil can retire
‘Cause old Joe Stalin will keep the fire
Yes, old Joe’s dead and gone
He stayed around too long
And nobody now can save his hide
‘Cause old Joe laid right down and died
Ray Anderson
Kentucky Records #573, 1953
To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
LOL. No, that story was garbled, it was not said that she did it with a horse but that her favorite consort was “hung like a horse” :>)
35
posted on
07/15/2008 7:46:58 PM PDT
by
Enchante
(BILL AYERS: "Now THESE are the Obamas I knew! Thank you, New Yorker, for showing my real friends!")
To: Fiji Hill
Yep, my family lived in her father's principality until it was time to marry Catherine off. Apparently daddy was a real tightwad, so he decided to save a bunch of money and get rid of about 10,000 excess serfs by giving them to the Russians so that they could "teach the Russian farmers how to properly farm the land". The thing is, the Russian farmers were all happy with the way they were already farming, so the Germans formed their own villages and stuck mainly to themselves.
My family got out of Russia in 1911 and caught a tramp freighter out of Hamburg heading for Galveston the next spring. My great-grandmother went into labor with my great-aunt Mary as the ship was entering Galveston Bay, so she was taken straight off the ship, thus bypassing immigration. If this hadn't happened, she most likely would not have been allowed into the country, due to a birth defect she had.
Once she was out of the hospital, they caught a train out of Houston to Colorado, where they met up with other Germans who'd been fleeing the crumbling Russian Empire.
36
posted on
07/15/2008 7:54:55 PM PDT
by
Stonewall Jackson
(Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory. - George Patton)
To: TigerLikesRooster
Ivan the Terrible? Peter the Great?
37
posted on
07/15/2008 8:06:19 PM PDT
by
Tallguy
(Tagline is offline till something better comes along...)
To: Greysard
Stalin's strict socialism after the war created an illusion of equality and plenty.And socialism was an easy sell to a country mostly encultured by Orthodoxy. I noted this many times while living in Russia for short durations. I used to conduct polls at grocery stores in Moscow, in fact.
38
posted on
07/15/2008 8:31:26 PM PDT
by
MarMema
(kosovo will always be Serbian)
To: TigerLikesRooster
39
posted on
07/15/2008 8:36:39 PM PDT
by
MarMema
(kosovo will always be Serbian)
To: Rosemont
Stalin spoke Russian, and adapted Russian culture. Therefore, he was Russian.
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