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To: shrinkermd
The teacher's unions, like all public employee unions, want high pay and low performance standards. Usually, they get their wish. This could be an exception if people rally to the testing provisions.

I'm not a member of a union, but I was really looking forward to the testing provisions in NCLB being implemented - I hoped it meant that I would no longer get 9th graders who were reading at a 3rd grade level or below.

So far I have 3 problems with NCLB. The first is that the states are allowed to set their own standards...in my state, an 8th grader who is reading at a 4th grade level can still pass the test and be promoted.

The 2nd problem I have is that even if a kid fails the test, s/he will probably be promoted anyway.

My third problem is that if we have too many special education students who fail the tests, our school is considered "failing" even if the other kids do okay.

Guess what? Many students are in special education because they don't learn at the same rate as the other students, so just maybe expecting them to be working at the same rate is just a tiny bit unrealistic, especially if they are mentally retarded as opposed to having learning or behavior disorders. Of course, as low as some of the standards are, maybe it isn't unrealistic at all....

8 posted on 07/12/2008 7:41:57 PM PDT by Amelia
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To: Amelia

The only thing NCLB had for conservatives was the national testing which caused the teacher’s (union mostly) to complain. Of course they will complain, the testing will, over time, uncover who are effective and who are not. The idea of finding some ineffective teachers and schools is what accountability is all about.

This program was sponsored IIRC by Kenedy and so it is likely to have a lot in it for the teacher’s union. Since the testing is the part the teachers do not like. (It forces us to teach to the test.) It stands to reason that the approach the democrats would take to unraveling it is to leave the funding provisions and eliminate the testing. This is profound in its absolute chutzpuh.


9 posted on 07/12/2008 7:52:25 PM PDT by KC_for_Freedom (California engineer and teacher)
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To: Amelia

Yes, excellent points. But the ability disparities are even worse than most imagine.

With middle class (mostly white) flight, the average IQ of big city children is now 85. Since an IQ of 85 is the average cutting score for graduating from a usual HS, this means half the children are really not up to the traditional, academic approach.

How to deal with this presently is more a political rather than an educational problem since almost all the civil rights organizations and minority interests, in general, all deny there are such differences.

The result is, we try to create an unachievable, egalitarian educational system that denies real differences. Educators seem to actively conspire in these efforts in spite of it creating an illusion of educational failure in the inner city when, in truth, the problem is one of differing abilities.

I agree that testing is required, and I hope, that the education establishment eventually realizes accounting for ability differences in reporting is not racist nor demeaning to any particular racial or other group. Until then, we will see multiple failed effort and partisan friction as the outcome.


12 posted on 07/13/2008 5:26:29 AM PDT by shrinkermd
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To: Amelia
I'm not a member of a union, but I was really looking forward to the testing provisions in NCLB being implemented - I hoped it meant that I would no longer get 9th graders who were reading at a 3rd grade level or below.

So far I have 3 problems with NCLB. The first is that the states are allowed to set their own standards...in my state, an 8th grader who is reading at a 4th grade level can still pass the test and be promoted.

The 2nd problem I have is that even if a kid fails the test, s/he will probably be promoted anyway.

My third problem is that if we have too many special education students who fail the tests, our school is considered "failing" even if the other kids do okay

Sounds like a totally impossible educational framework and utterly impossible to implement.

Surely such a situation would be an exercise in complete frustration for the semi-literate child. The better prepared students must be bored out of their minds waiting for these kids to catch up with the class. And...I expect that because of the inability to keep up some of these semi-literate kids are disruptive in their behavior. Some would call this emotional child abuse for all involved.

Children with 3rd grade reading skills in 9th grade classes???? Huh?

If a child fails the test and is promoted anyway, aren't the teachers and principals lying to that student? What sort of morals are being taught here?

And...If a child who is really reading at the 3rd grade level is placed in a 9th grade class, isn't that called ***"lying"***? Aren't the teachers and principals **lying*** to that child and his parents?

Why are teachers cooperating with this? Last time I checked, teaching wasn't like a military draft. No one will go to jail if they quit.

19 posted on 07/13/2008 4:29:35 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are NOT stupid)
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To: Amelia

I thought most special education youth could be excluded from testing requirements.


28 posted on 07/13/2008 7:01:22 PM PDT by marajade (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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