Posted on 07/09/2008 4:32:10 AM PDT by johnstown
Again, the past may assist in determining the future. Some have described radical Islam as Communism with a religious veneer. While serious differences exist in the areas of metaphysics and materialism, both systems are determinist in their views of human events, triumphalist in their views of history, collectivist in their perceptions of social order, and totalitarian in their civil governments. (Nazism had all these characteristics, although other authoritarian post-World War I regimes in much of Europe, often labeled as fascist, lacked some or all of them.) In fact, radical Islam is more like Communism than it is like the old European regimes where the monarchy and the church were intertwined and their mutual roles in society were blurred.
As far back as the Unitarian movement in early 19th Century New England, the religious Left adhered to political and social goals similar to those of the Jacobin radicals in France and their successors in the European revolutions of 1848. The Social Gospel arose as a major movement around the turn of the last century and was centered around theological liberals in the mainline denominations, such as Walter Rauschenbusch, J. Bromley Oxnam, and Pearl Buck.
The mainline denominations were clearly anti-anti-Communist during the Cold War era, and sometimes even pro-Communist. Right wing commentators in the post-World War II era showed links between prominent Protestant liberals and Communist front groups and sometimes even the Communist Party itself. While some of the accusations were sensationalistic and were criticized by J. Edgar Hoover as harmful to legitimate anti-Communism, there is no doubt that the mainline denominations opposed aggressive actions to oppose Communism overseas and supported the leftist agenda domestically.
In contrast, evangelical Protestants were staunchly anti-Communist. Examples would include Carl McIntyre, Francis Schaffer, and Fredrick Schwartz. While many fundamentalists avoided delving directly into the political arena until the late 1970s (e.g., Jerry Falwell), they, along with evangelicals, were certainly critical of the cultural Marxism and moral degeneracy represented in the sexual revolution and the beatnik/hippie movements. Evangelical and fundamentalist voters, aroused out of a half century of political slumber by the effects of rising cultural degeneracy, provided Ronald Reagan and a resurgent conservative movement with the support needed for the demise of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact.
In the conflict with radical Islam, it is worthy to note that some of the same figures, such as Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, who had been staunch anti-Communists in the Cold War era, became strong supporters of the war against Islamofascism. In the meantime, the mainline churches, especially the Presbyterian Church, USA, have attempted to divest themselves of investments in Israel, radical Islam's enemy. The liberals in the apostate church are once again aligning with secular liberals in opposition to vigorous attempts to defeat those who would overturn the Western nations.
Same song, second verse.
Feel-good garbage leaves you hollow inside. Most people see that and that is why they are losing members.
I'm speaking of Baptists. I'm not a member of that particular denomination. And I imagine they'd have a problem with you calling their policies 'liberal'.
” The liberals in the apostate church are once again aligning with secular liberals in opposition to vigorous attempts to defeat those who would overturn the Western nations.”
....they are and they scare me....in PCUSA a recurring theme is “Peace and Justice”....over 30 years ago I went to a Presbytery meeting where the headliner was a Pacifist...I said “what’s your solution to a man like Pol Pot?”....he says “Cambodians should refuse to take up arms and follow him”....I just shook my head and walked away from the guy.
How did your Baptist congregation deal with divorce and remarriage?
If a person is committing adultery, I have seen cases where the Pastor intervenes and talks with them, councils them. If they chose to repent at the point, they can. Otherwise they can chose to leave the Church or keep going, but if they have a membership, it is revoked.
Heck, some of them do not even allow short skirts, or blouses or tops without sleeves. But that is their right.
OH, the Episcopal Church does care in Virginia! Several older Virginia Episcopal parishes voted to split from the national church (ECUSA) and its VA diocese based in Richmond. Among them are two of the oldest, largest and wealthiest parishes in the state if not the country. They joined an Anglican church based in Africa.
The ECUSA sued over the very valuable property of the departing congregations, and lost. After appeal, the original court opinion was upheld. It will likely end up in more courts with more appeals.
Throughout the discussions and suits, there has been much argued by the ECUSA and its Richmond diocese about the properties, but precious little about the souls of the congregants.
I belive the law by which the departing congregations maintain their property may be unique to VA and not apply elsewhere. But at least for now it’s been upheld as constitutional in the Old Dominion.
The Bible is clear on the subject; marriage is a holy union and divorce and remarriage is adultery against the former spouse. Yet Baptists look on divorce as the sin, not the remarriage, and believe that asking forgiveness for the failed marriage is enough to allow remarriage. That goes against what Jesus said in Matthew and Mark. Rewriting scripture like that makes it look like some sin is OK and some is not.
No sin is ok. But they are not barriers to coming to Christ to repent either. Nor are abominations.
The point of my post was that the leadership of ECUSA very much cares about the PROPERTY of the congregations, if not theiur members or their souls. There was an official ‘separation’ from ECUSA in 2006 at 7 parishes in NOVA, including Truro in Fairfax City and Falls Church in (ta da) Falls Church. Both are huge congregations and very wealthy, not to mention very very active.
Actually, the VA law on which the parishes relied to keep their property following the “separation’ was adopted during the Civil War. I have the legal legal opinions that I could FReepmail if you’re interested. Dry stuff but still fascinating to some of us.
Should I have written in Dick and Jane fashion to make a point to you? I said, the point was not whether it is a worse sin. On its face, it is not. The problem is the insistence that it is not a sin. Congratulations for weakest response of the day. You tried to make my post mean the opposite of what it was.
No, the point Jesus made about divorce is that people who thought themselves sinless really were not sinless. Again, no sin is OK. Jesus said just thinking about sinning is as bad as actually committing the sin in the flesh. The problem with homosexuals, or people such as you who champion them, is that they claim it is not a sin.
I imagine they would be loud and proud about the gay thing even if there were only two or three of them left. So we can be sure that even though they are declining, they are not going away.
A lot of this is also coming out of the seminaries where this liberalism is taking hold. You have pastors coming out of seminary that are activists, not ministers of God.
I feel better now.
1965 is a common start date for the PCUSA numbers (peak membership for the component bodies, plus onset of discussion on the liberal 'Confession of 1967' when the liberals first began to take open control in the northern Church. 1965 numbers were 4,254,597; 1983 (merger) numbers were 3,121,338; 2007 numbers were 2,209,546.
Last year's losses were 57,572.
No matter how someone spins it, no one can make those numbers look good.
Generally, no, and absolutely, no.
.
For pension issues, start here (pdf):
http://www.layman.org/layman/Resources/pension-brochure.pdf
As for property, if you want the long answer, start here:
http://www.layman.org/layman/Resources/guide-to-church-prop-ad.htm
Or, if you don't want to spring for the book, here: http://www.layman.org/layman/Resources/lawsuits-court-filings.htm
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