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To: Philly Nomad
Funny. We can't subject the moment of the Big Bang to any of those tests. In fact, physicists have become pretty resigned to the fact that there will be a moment of time forever closed to scientific inquiry due to the fact that the actual laws of physics hadn't come into being yet.

If there can be a "before" the known laws of physics, there can also be an "outside" of the known laws of physics. And if the universe has a Creator, one who actually created the whole of space and time and all the laws that science seeks to discover and understand, He must be in that "outside," since if He were "inside," He would not be the Creator, just as a statue cannot be its own sculptor.

How then do we "test" for Him? Perhaps by finding His fingerprints: the Anthropic Principle, evidence of design in life, communications with mankind that can be tested and authenticated, etc.

Oh, but I forgot: We're not allowed to even inquire in such directions. It's just not scientific--at least not according to the modern priests of atheism and humanism.

25 posted on 07/08/2008 12:44:23 PM PDT by Buggman (HebrewRoot.com - Baruch haBa b'Shem ADONAI!)
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To: Buggman

The “modern priests of atheism and humanism” set up the parameters of discussion (science/materialism) to exclude the Creator,

then state that they’ve disproved the Creator.

That’s not science, that’s dogma.


29 posted on 07/08/2008 1:03:13 PM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: Buggman
How then do we "test" for Him?

You set forth a possible observation, the results of which are not yet known, and set forth the test "Result X would indicate the absence of such an entity".

Ball's in your court....

30 posted on 07/08/2008 1:04:37 PM PDT by steve-b (The "intelligent design" hoax is not merely anti-science; it is anti-civilization. --John Derbyshire)
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To: Buggman

No, but those tests and observations have led us to the Big Bang. And as theories develop and instruments get better, we’ll have even more evidence. And if the evidence and theory points to something else, that something else will take the place of the Big Bang.

But anyway, you are asking for mutually exclusive things, first you want to say that “God is outside observation” then you want to say “Traces of God is observable.”

You can’t have it both ways. If you want God to be a part of science, if He doesn’t exist following the rules of science, then you would have to admit God doesn’t exist.


36 posted on 07/08/2008 1:15:48 PM PDT by Philly Nomad
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