Posted on 07/01/2008 10:40:58 AM PDT by wintertime
We must be willing to redefine education. What education looks like now is an artificial construct. It was not created by people who knew or understood children or teens. It was created by bureaucrats and special interests who wanted to control children and teens.
I talked with a young lady the other day – 14-years-old – who loves horses and aims to own stables and teach riding, among other things. She’s been working with horses since she was five. She’s good enough now that she “breaks” new ones and retrains ones facing changes in the use they’re being put to. She knows her stuff.
(snip)
Then there’s her other life – public school. She failed her end-of-year math exam by three points, so she’s going to summer school. She’ll have to pass the test to move on to the next grade. I’ve talked with her. She’s smart and highly competent – just not especially interested in algebra. She’s more accomplished than many adults (even ones who did pass algebra). But she has four more years of school to go, during which time she’ll have to pass endless tests and divert her efforts from what she knows she’ll devote her life to.
(snip) I get many calls a month from parents of teens who simply haven’t managed to fit into the school mold. They’re smart kids, often kids with serious interests they’re prevented from pursuing because so many adults in their lives are running them through the testing/counseling/therapy wringer.
(snip)
In order to redefine education, we will have to engage in some self-liberation, for most of us have a very hard time letting go (I mean really letting go) of the idea that the state knows some secret about education that we don’t and that if we defy their model we just might be sorry.
(snip)
God Bless you as well, BlackElk.
I hope you have (or have had) a good night....
The Knights of Columbus Council did a good thing.
Good for you for bringing it to them.
Wintertime,
I don’t know what you posted in #261; I only see one line from your post quoted in a schoolteacher’s post. But I want you to know I’ve continued to follow this conversation as much as possible.
I’m incredulous at how certain schoolteachers (though not all) are having our posts deleted for either (1) responding to their obnoxious statements or (2) stating a fact. You are absolutely correct: State-run school is part of the Marxist plan. Schools are called institutions. It is accurate to refer to school students as institutionalized. (Why would anyone take offense at that?) The origin of the term “useful idiot” has been attributed to Lenin to describe communist sympathizers.
I can understand how people might become offended. But the same teachers make disparaging remarks again and again about parents. Do we as parents hit the abuse button? No!
One schoolteacher makes bigoted and obnoxious statements while another cheers her on. Does anyone hit the abuse button on that post? No! But, when I respond in kind, one of those teachers complains and tries to have my response deleted. (Amazing!)
I think you’re wasting your precious time here. We could talk on and on forever, and they would never understand because they’re part of the system. And part of me understands their line of thinking because, at one point, I shared it. Years ago, when I first heard that parents homeschool, my immediate response was: “Who’s checking up on those parents?” Not long afterward, I learned more and decided to homeschool my own children. A local principal threatened me with truancy charges. (But it was an empty threat - long story.) That’s when I finally understood the importance of parental rights. Now I’m ashamed of my initial reaction to homeschooling.
Most people will never understand unless they themselves homeschool. I have met and known former schoolteachers who homeschool, and they understand the issue. They vehemently oppose any and all state oversight. But, I’ll bet if we’d asked them about homeschooling years beforehand, they would’ve been doubtful, too. People don’t understand the importance of individual rights until their own are threatened. And they don’t understand that most people can manage on their own unless they themselves have tried against all odds and succeeded.
My time here on Free Republic is and has been **highly** rewarded.
It is **very** satisfying to see new language and new concepts picked up and then used routinely by the conservative press. One of the latest terms that I now see commonly is the word “institutionalized”. I could give many other examples.
I generally can measure how powerful and idea is by how vigorous and outrageous is the response of the government school defenders ( some of whom I believe are **not** teachers but are actually professional PR people of the NEA —probably attorneys.)
Some children from dysfunctional families will need institutionalization. Some kids seem to be doing very well in KIPP schools,...but,...I would be **appalled** if the government **forced** any child ( normal or dysfunctional) into a KIPP school.
I have worked in the health field for more than 3 decades. It is amazing but even the most dysfunctional parents love their kids and want what is best for them, and often there is a grandparent or some other responsible person in these child's lives. Even the most dysfunctional parent would freely and willingly send their child to the school with the best outcomes. ( Possibly this would be based on the KIPP model, maybe not.)
Sadly, most of the children who MOST need this type of politically incorrect, religious and moral advice will never be schooled in a private school/ homeschool or any type of school which engages in any type of "judgment". And their parents WANT it that way. That is so sad to me.
In a system of private schools those schools who did not dish out the morals and ethics needed for success would go out of business. Parents would not choose these schools. Why? Answer: Because the kids in these schools would be failing academically and socially.
I would not say "never". I am very optimistic. The waiting lines for charters, vouchers, and tax credit programs are **enormous**!!! Also, the Milton Friedman Foundation is doing polls around the country. Only a **tiny** percentage ( in the single digits) of parents would choose a government school over a charter, private, or home school. Legislators will respond to that type of political pressure.
I'm still waiting for you to explain to me why the D.C. voucher program received so few applications from the worst schools in the district.
Been waiting 2 days now....
Six *bushes* of habaneros, not six bushels! We’ll be able to pick one next week, probably. I can make enchiladas with Really Hot Sauce and take them to church next Sunday. The Spanish congregation has a dinner after Mass.
Anoreth is interested in a Pre-Architecture course that Central Piedmont offers. That would position her for either architecture or civil engineering with ROTC as a junior. But she’ll start with whatever’s available, and especially a foreign language, since she can’t get into a 4-year college without it.
Bill hasn’t seemed enthusiastic about camping so far, but he may change his mind when we move Vlad into the room with the other 4 boys :-). Pat could have Bill’s bed. Pat’s latest weirdness was that Bill was threatening to turn him into a tornado, which he probably was, the nuisance. I suggested Pat go think about whether he might like being a tornado, whooshing across the Midwest, devastating the landscape ... and he came back after a while and said it would make him dizzy!
After years of getting “The Learning Company” catalog, I finally started ordering their courses, and now I’m addicted. I’ve listened to “History of Ancient Egypt” (24 hours, twice!), “Greek and Persian Wars,” “Utopia and Terror in the 20th Century,” and now I’m on “Cycles of American Political Thought.” The instructor on this one has a snoozy voice, though. I’m also reading some of the Greek classics that were the sources for the ancient history courses - I’m about to finish the “Aeneid,” which I’d never read before.
Because parents are not stupid. In a free market they are not going to choose a “worst school”. This is basic ECON 101.
Our privilege.
HELLLOOOOOO....their children were already in the worst schools in D.C.
They could apply for vouchers to send their children to Catholic or other private schools...
But they DID NOT.
WHY was this?
Happy Independence Day, BlackElk!
Because ECON 101 dictates that parents will choose the least worst school. If the least worst is a government school they will choose that. Also,...Convenience is often a factor. The government school may be closer, in the same neighborhood as the babysitter, have better transport to and from, etc.
I am willing to bet, though, that there are **long** waiting lists for some charters and private voucher schools in Washington. Why? Answer: Because these high demand schools are perceived by the parents to be better than the government schools.
Seems to me that the free market is work as it should in this very limited sphere.
Amelia, do they teach anything about basic economics in colleges of education? I am asking this because it surprises me that I am answering a question like this.
Finally,...Another reminder: Whether a government school is “good” or not is not the basis for my objection to them.
Even the very best government school in the U.S. has serious problems with respecting the First Amendment Rights of speech, press, assembly, and expression of religious belief. And....Even the very best government school in the U.S. can not be religiously neutral.
You’re missing something here, wintertime, and you consistently miss it even though I do believe it has been pointed out to you in the past.
Charter schools ARE “government” schools. Most are operated in a different manner than the run of the mill public school, yet they still remain government controlled.
If charter schools are government schools then lift the cap on them completely.
No problem! Right?
I am willing to bet that you did not do any reading on the D.C. voucher program. If you had, you'd know that the parents of children in the worst government schools received first priority for vouchers, because they were the parents who were deemed to need them most.
The problem was that the parents didn't apply.
Amelia, do they teach anything about basic economics in colleges of education? I am asking this because it surprises me that I am answering a question like this.
I really have no idea whether or not an education major is required to take economics. My undergraduate degree was not in education.
It is very obvious to me that you know nothing about the D.C. voucher program, and made no effort to find out about it. You're just talking out of your hat.
The problem was that the parents didn’t apply.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Then allow unlimited vouchers to all in Washington. Where’s the threat to the government system?
No problem! Right?
What are you talking about??????? Do you actually know ANYTHING at all about charter schools?
Amelia, in order for her to do that she would have to stand up.
Yes WINTERTIME that WAS a personal insult and it was intended. Your utter ignorance, in both the sense of your lack of manners and lack of knowlege, has just gotten out of hand. Your personally insulting manner is utterly disgusting and the fact you refuse to engage in a civil discussion makes you absolutely worthless as someone to even pay attention.
You know nothing about what goes on in a public school because you haven't set foot in one in probably 15 years, or at least since the last time you used one as a "babysitter" for your alleged prodigies.
Am I being personally insulting here? You better believe I am, because it is about time someone put you in your place. You are an ignorant braggart and a bigot and in no way shape or form resemble any Christian homeschooler I know. Heck, for all of that, you don't resemble ANY Christian I know.
As for your merry little band of psychophants (spelling intentional) they're no better than you.
Have at it and hit abuse on me, I've started to regret I've never done it to you because I can't imagine me saying anything anywhere near as abusive as nearly every post of yours has been for as long as I have had the misfortune of communicating with you.
Please read post #149.
So?...What do you think?
What’s the matter? Afraid to address me directly? Have to bring in back up?
I only pinged the others to let them know I’ve had it with your crapola, plus I was posting to someone else, but included you out of courtesy since I was speaking of you........a common courtesy and custom on FR that you seem to not understand as evidenced by this post of yours to which I am replying.
At least I’m honest in what I am doing, something that can not be said about your tiresome tirades.
What's it going to accomplish if the parents don't apply?
Do your homework and get back to me.
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